Author Topic: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread  (Read 9746 times)

Offline FatJoe

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #15 on: 07-04-2009, 16:04:15 »
::)


Awesome!
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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #16 on: 07-04-2009, 16:04:00 »
Awesome!
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Offline Fuchs

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #17 on: 07-04-2009, 16:04:48 »
for a while now I've had a plan to make a couple of early cold war conflict maps. Putting Americans against Soviets with WW2 weapons, fighting in mid 1945 to late 1945 and perhaps some in 1946, In and around Germany and Poland.

All in Planning stage still, ofcourse.. we're still missing American forces, and then have to wait longer to get the Soviets :P
Gives me enough time to plan things ^^

...would be cool though, having Fireflies and M10 go up against T34's :D
Allied tanks vs Soviet tanks? All possible, even without twisting history. Look at the Korea war. BF:Korea is still far away from release but hell I also like it because it was a 'cold war' war.
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Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #18 on: 07-04-2009, 17:04:37 »
I think all maps currently are alternate history maps because both sides have the possibility to win, no matter what the history really tells. ;)

But I got your main idea and I must say I disagree. I dont think FH2 should do such things, not even when finished. They should be from people who work on a spin off for FH2 instead, like FHSW used to be.

Offline pheeph

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #19 on: 07-04-2009, 17:04:37 »
one map could use special weapons from Warfront: Turning Point.

Offline Emperor Showa

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #20 on: 07-04-2009, 22:04:04 »
But I got your main idea and I must say I disagree. I dont think FH2 should do such things, not even when finished. They should be from people who work on a spin off for FH2 instead, like FHSW used to be.

Perhaps a little bit of a Devil's advocate here (as I'm not gaga over this or going to push alternate history maps as a potential idea with any great tenacity or drive since I really don't care much either way.):

Here's the thing. I think realistic alternate history maps are a good idea in moderation. Your Sealion's, Invasion of Australia (IE, mustard gas and other gas warfare along North Africa as the Japanese assault the coast and advance and as Australia concedes the North to buy time*) and so forth. The reason being, many of these possibilities could have happened and are relatively realistic or totally realistic, and for example, the fact that Japan can win the Coral Sea should, to me, at least allow the open mindedness to an expression of what would happen next rather than the rest of the game being treated -in map content- as if they lost like they actually did. I understand not devoting to alternate history maps, but I think the idea should be kept open as, as the above example says, the Japanese can win Coral sea so what happens thereafter could draw fun. My issue is people who think this entails a Secret Weapons orgy (which I notice heavily among many of these suggestion and posts). It doesn't. Secret weapons shouldn't be involved at all in most possible maps beyond Nazi's invading the US in 1946 (which I think is a bit too fanboyish) and other maps like that which would likely never be made by even fans because they require too much work compared to others that can be mapped using existing elements or little addition.

Alternate history =/= Secret Weapons

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Line
« Last Edit: 07-04-2009, 22:04:12 by Emperor Showa »

Offline Danger X

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #21 on: 07-04-2009, 23:04:42 »
If I recall correctly, it was you who posted several alternate history weapons in the thread this one sprung out of.

So if there was anyone who gave the idea of secret weapons (or alternate weapons), it was you.
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Offline Emperor Showa

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #22 on: 07-04-2009, 23:04:44 »
If I recall correctly, it was you who posted several alternate history weapons in the thread this one sprung out of.

So if there was anyone who gave the idea of secret weapons (or alternate weapons), it was you.

Perhaps, but those weapons were mostly of a realism based brand of alternate history where WW2 lasted longer or was slightly different, and some of those could have come about at Downfall or were at least meant as food for thought on possible latter day weapons in feasible design development by the time the US got to invading Japan in 1945 and 1946. Not a total wacky Secret Weapons slew. Likewise, I didn't post them as in "Put these in! put these in!" but as in "Here's some things which possibly could have come into existence so you might want to look. I'll just post all of them, Downfall and not and out there and not (though I prefer the not in that part), so you guys can take a look." So they weren't integral parts but simply possible things that could see some form of inclusion. And I didn't post the more out there stuff because I wanted it in Downfall scenarios (and there was relatively few things that were "out there"; most were conventional instruments). I posted them because I was just listing off all the stuff I could find there.

And all those -at least the Downfall geared- dealt with a scenario at the end of the war, in an alternate end to it and were conventional. That's far different from giving the Russians electrotanks smack dab in the middle of a Moscow invasion in 1943.

And likewise, most of them being conventional and just more developed versions of already existing weapons that could have come about, I wouldn't call them "Secret Weapons". A few of them were Secret weapons type things, those were mostly posted simply because they met the qualifier of WW2 and I was presenting simply all the stuff I could find in that thread.

As I said, Alternate history is not Secret Weapons nor vice-versa. And there is a difference between the whacked out or unrealistic, and the realistic and plausible developments. The latter is good and that is what the weapons and devices out of that list I intended to deal with the Downfall scenario were meant for. The former is bad in this case at least.
« Last Edit: 08-04-2009, 00:04:10 by Emperor Showa »

Offline Danger X

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #23 on: 08-04-2009, 00:04:10 »
To clarify:

Secret weapons: any weapon (from rifle to mega tank), which has been designed at the time, but never got into mass production, or never got issued.

Alternate history: Can include the previous, but also more fictitious weapons. It also includes battles.

So alternate history is to look what might have happened, and Secret Weapons is simply to show off weapons that were never really built (real designs from the war, no fiction), or only prototypes.

Is this good for you?
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Offline Emperor Showa

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #24 on: 08-04-2009, 00:04:57 »
To clarify:

Secret weapons: any weapon (from rifle to mega tank), which has been designed at the time, but never got into mass production, or never got issued.

Alternate history: Can include the previous, but also more fictitious weapons. It also includes battles.

So alternate history is to look what might have happened, and Secret Weapons is simply to show off weapons that were never really built (real designs from the war, no fiction), or only prototypes.

Is this good for you?

Yes, but what I'm saying is that if you're dealing with a scenario where these "Secret Weapons" would actually be produced, I wouldn't consider them secret weapons. I mean, for arguments sake, having a Gremlin in a map set in 1944 is different from one set in 1946. With one, you alter the history of WW2, put in a thing that wasn't really there, and that I'd consider a "secret weapon". With the other, you only alter the end and have free reign from there and there is possibility. And realism of course comes into account. That's the issue with Downfall compared to many of these things. Some stuff may have come and would have come by then and it was a down the road in time type deal. With I believe all of these so far -outside of Invasion USA- you're dealing within the actual WW2 time frame so secret weapons there that weren't there would be far different from the former case of Downfall and bad in my opinion.

Offline Danger X

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #25 on: 08-04-2009, 00:04:58 »
I completely understand. ;D

So putting the Horten Ho229 in the battle of Britain is secret weapons (it wasn't designed yet, i know. it was just an example), but putting it in a scenario after BOB where germans won, is alternate history, but then the focus is not on the weapons, but on the setting.

Glad we see eye to eye at last.
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Offline Mspfc Doc DuFresne

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #26 on: 08-04-2009, 03:04:45 »
Glad we see eye to eye at last.

Well I'm not.

Need I remind you people of the awesome layout of FHSW? They had vehicles that saw extensive service, extremely important vehicles, improbable vehicles, Vehicles based off real designs set in fictional battles (Operation RatteTrap is focused on defeating the 1000 ton 'Ratte' LandKreuzer supertank, and is odly set in what looks like N. Africa.) They also had battles such as Downfall, mixing alt history, prototype design, and the name "Secret Weapons."

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Offline sn00x

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #27 on: 08-04-2009, 07:04:41 »
i would like to see the FG42 MG version :D

Offline Danger X

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #28 on: 08-04-2009, 10:04:58 »
@DuFresne: I meant that we(Showa and I) see eye to eye on the terminology.

I myself would love to see a secret weapons mod too.

But I also like alternate history. However, I am not sure I will like to play the idea in a game. I guess I will only want that if there are some recognisable maps in there, like the white house and surroundings, or other famous landmarks.
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Offline hOMEr_jAy

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Re: Alternate History Maps Suggestion Thread
« Reply #29 on: 08-04-2009, 11:04:57 »
IMO Alternate History doesn´t work quite well without those fancy-schmancy toys that never made it into combat. Sure, some battles, like a Operation Sealion map would be nice, but seeing ideas that weren´t succesful in RL in action is also cool. And honestly I don´t know why FH2 shouldn´t portray them, too? (Of course not the Maus, because it saw combat ;))
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