Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: Sgt.Radman on 15-06-2010, 22:06:40

Title: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 15-06-2010, 22:06:40
I know we don't really have a standard Airborne faction (Purple Heart Lane, Pointe du Hoc ...) but it would be nice 2 have Recoilles rifles on maps as pickups or replacing the zooks with r.r. and making zooks pickup kits.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 15-06-2010, 23:06:16
Pointe Du Hoc is about Rangers, not Airborne.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Nerdsturm on 15-06-2010, 23:06:07
It was my understanding the bazooka was a recoiless rifle...
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: siben on 15-06-2010, 23:06:25
No, that is an Shaped charge rocket. Recoil less rifles are a different way if shooting your warhead.

Info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoilless_rifle
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 15-06-2010, 23:06:16
In my knowledge the zooka is a RL. It has a shaped charge/rocket.

The r.r has an exploding/chemical projectile (don't hold me for this, not sure)

and the Rangers also used them, more then Airborne - thnx for reminding me
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: THeTA0123 on 15-06-2010, 23:06:02
He means probaly this=

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M18_recoilless_rifle
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Lightning on 15-06-2010, 23:06:08
I think the difference between a rocket launcher and a recoilless rifle (or more correctly, recoilless gun) is that the projectile from a rocket launcher (a rocket) has a propellant that keeps the rocket moving after it has been fired, whereas a recoilless rifle has, much like a regular rifle, a 'bullet', which is propelled by a single combustion.

Rockets do, of course, not have any recoil. This is because they push against the air and not against the weapon. The principle of a recoilless rifle is that although the bullet 'pushes' against the rifle, there is an equal force in the opposite direction also 'pushing' against the rifle, so there is no net force on the rifle.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: siben on 15-06-2010, 23:06:57
I think the difference between a rocket launcher and a recoilless rifle (or more correctly, recoilless gun) is that the projectile from a rocket launcher (a rocket) has a propellant that keeps the rocket moving after it has been fired, whereas a recoilless rifle has, much like a regular rifle, a 'bullet', which is propelled by a single combustion.

Rockets do, of course, not have any recoil. This is because they push against the air and not against the weapon. The principle of a recoilless rifle is that although the bullet 'pushes' against the rifle, there is an equal force in the opposite direction also 'pushing' against the rifle, so there is no net force on the rifle.

So, theoretical, the Faust is a RR? Doesn't it also need a rifled barrel to be a RR or am i wrong. (hence the name recoilless rifle)
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 15-06-2010, 23:06:57
He means probaly this=

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M18_recoilless_rifle

My point exactly, just couldn't remember the number.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Lightning on 15-06-2010, 23:06:39
Technically, the Panzerfaust is a recoilless gun, because it has no rifling. It's quite common however, to see the term recoilless rifle used anyway.

The M18 wasn't used until April 1945, so there's no way you'll see it in Purple Heart Lane.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: THeTA0123 on 15-06-2010, 23:06:12
Technically, the Panzerfaust is a recoilless gun, because it has no rifling. It's quite common however, to see the term recoilless rifle used anyway.
so

basicly

A rifle grenade is also a recoilless rifle?
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Lightning on 15-06-2010, 23:06:14
Technically, the Panzerfaust is a recoilless gun, because it has no rifling. It's quite common however, to see the term recoilless rifle used anyway.
so

basicly

A rifle grenade is also a recoilless rifle?
No. It's not even recoilless...
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 15-06-2010, 23:06:02
Technically, the Panzerfaust is a recoilless gun, because it has no rifling. It's quite common however, to see the term recoilless rifle used anyway.

The M18 wasn't used until April 1945, so there's no way you'll see it in Purple Heart Lane.

I was saying it because u have airborne there and linked it afterwards 2 P-d-H cause of the Stugs.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: sn00x on 15-06-2010, 23:06:33
Technically, the Panzerfaust is a recoilless gun, because it has no rifling. It's quite common however, to see the term recoilless rifle used anyway.
so

basicly

A rifle grenade is also a recoilless rifle?
No. It's not even recoilless...

irl the german rifle nade woudl rip your arm of if it was shot like in game.. norway used them a long time after ww2.. my father was lucky enough to fire it a couple of times ;D
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: siben on 15-06-2010, 23:06:59
Technically, the Panzerfaust is a recoilless gun, because it has no rifling. It's quite common however, to see the term recoilless rifle used anyway.
so

basicly

A rifle grenade is also a recoilless rifle?
No. It's not even recoilless...

irl the german rifle nade woudl rip your arm of if it was shot like in game.. norway used them a long time after ww2.. my father was lucky enough to fire it a couple of times ;D

Yes and no. There are 6 (i think) rings on the rifle grenade attachment for the M1. If you put the grenade no further then the first 3 you can shoot it from the shoulder without braking it because there is an open space now between the grenade and barrel. The grenade will not fly as far but the recoil is just a tad worse then a regular shot. if you put it on the last ring and shout it from the shoulder you have a good seal and all the force will be put on the grenade propelling it the furthest but giving it one hell of a kick.

Shooting the american rifle nade is a tad more complicated than people think.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Eat Uranium on 15-06-2010, 23:06:20
I was saying it because u have airborne there and linked it afterwards 2 P-d-H cause of the Stugs.
lolwut?
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: VonMudra on 16-06-2010, 01:06:26
Technically, the Panzerfaust is a recoilless gun, because it has no rifling. It's quite common however, to see the term recoilless rifle used anyway.

The M18 wasn't used until April 1945, so there's no way you'll see it in Purple Heart Lane.

I was saying it because u have airborne there and linked it afterwards 2 P-d-H cause of the Stugs.

No airbourne on that map.

Anyways, the only recoilless rifles that could be in current maps would be the german 75mm versions that saw action in Crete.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: th_battleaxe on 23-06-2010, 18:06:54
Technically, the Panzerfaust is a recoilless gun, because it has no rifling. It's quite common however, to see the term recoilless rifle used anyway.

The M18 wasn't used until April 1945, so there's no way you'll see it in Purple Heart Lane.

I was saying it because u have airborne there and linked it afterwards 2 P-d-H cause of the Stugs.

No airbourne on that map.

Anyways, the only recoilless rifles that could be in current maps would be the german 75mm versions that saw action in Crete.
Ah, I was wondering how long that one would take to be suggested.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: VonMudra on 23-06-2010, 20:06:24
Its been suggested many times before, the devs are fully aware of it :P
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 23-06-2010, 20:06:32
Once again, Company of Heroes fails as  a history teacher.

Reading about the use of this thing, the armor penetration was worse than the bazookas. The HE-round however, was great. So this would become sort of an US PIAT. It was used with great success (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eduzOLfhQB0&feature=related) in the pacific theatre against japanese emplacements.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: sn00x on 23-06-2010, 21:06:39
@Siben

Have you shot one? how can you know about its force?

and i said german k98 launcher, not the m1 with the ring thingy

unless you know one who has ofcourse shot it... ;D
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Flyboy1942 on 23-06-2010, 22:06:38
What are you guys talking about? You just have to slap it on the end of the gun and shoot it. At least COD WAW does it right. No fiddling about wasting time, and its easy to fire accurately at men and zombie alike.

So I was having a debate with my friend about whether the faust was a recoilless rifle, and apparently I was almost right, though he was right about it not having rifling and thus not being a rifle...
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: siben on 23-06-2010, 22:06:57
@ snoox: About the US Rifle grenade, look at this film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vukYdgepSZk

About the German rifle grenade. I would not know. I think it will only be full force so one hell of a kick. There might be a valve on the side to release some pressure so  you can adjust the range that way (and kick) but i have seen them from very close by and did not see anything.

I wanted to buy the riflegrenade kit for my mauser, but those things go from €700 to €900 so it will take a while before i ever buy one.

If you give me the cash i will even make you a nice film and a 2 page long text of how it is :) I will even buy different German riflegrenades to test it with.

My father shot riflegrenades in the army, and so did my grandfather, maybe one of them did it with a mauser, will ask next time i see them and post it here if they did.


@ flyboy: If you just put the grenade on the end and shoot your grenade will definatly fail and very likely explode in your face. You are not sepose to shoot true them, i have see an original box of German rifle grenades once and the blank bullet that you have to use is taped on the grenadae itself.

And i think another tread on this forum came to the conclusion that the faust is a recoilless gun.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Flyboy1942 on 24-06-2010, 01:06:48
Yeah Ill be able to clear that debate up at least. :D

And to clarify, I laughed my ass off when my former roomate and some guys on our floor were playing COD:WAW and pulled the M1 with Rifle Grenades kit on zombie mode. I asked them when exactly in the 1.3 second animation you had time to slip in the priming round (into the Garand receiver no less), remove the grenade from its pouch, and carefully attach it to the rifle, but they kinda gave be blank looks. :P aahhh COD...
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: VonMudra on 24-06-2010, 02:06:29
Rifle nades give off a massive kick, but it WAS possible to fire them from the shoulder.  The K98k nade launcher had specilized sights for it to be fired thusly.  Just, if you didn't do it right, it could break your collar bone.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Flyboy1942 on 24-06-2010, 03:06:24
Still better than the knee mortar.

Or the Boys according to many accounts...
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: THeTA0123 on 24-06-2010, 11:06:46
Once again, Company of Heroes fails as  a history teacher.

Reading about the use of this thing, the armor penetration was worse than the bazookas. The HE-round however, was great. So this would become sort of an US PIAT. It was used with great success (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eduzOLfhQB0&feature=related) in the pacific theatre against japanese emplacements.
The M18 was used in cologne, remagen and other February 1945 events.

While indeed yes its AT performance was worse, its HE performance was devestating. It could be aimed with no problem inside a bunker from long range
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 24-06-2010, 18:06:33
Once again, Company of Heroes fails as  a history teacher.

Reading about the use of this thing, the armor penetration was worse than the bazookas. The HE-round however, was great. So this would become sort of an US PIAT. It was used with great success (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eduzOLfhQB0&feature=related) in the pacific theatre against japanese emplacements.
The M18 was used in cologne, reymegen and other February 1945 events.

While indeed yes its AT performance was worse, its HE performance was devestating. It could be aimed with no problem inside a bunker from long range

It was the predecessor 2 the Zook so u can't expect any real devastating performance from it with AP. But HE is just like any other explosives device.
Nooow, if we could just get destroyable environment - bunkers etc.  :) ::)
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: THeTA0123 on 24-06-2010, 22:06:26
No worries


FH3 will have that
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 25-06-2010, 08:06:33
It was the predecessor 2 the Zook so u can't expect any real devastating performance from it with AP. But HE is just like any other explosives device.
Nooow, if we could just get destroyable environment - bunkers etc.  :) ::)
Negatory!

Zooka: 1942
M18 recoilless:1943
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 25-06-2010, 17:06:43
It was the predecessor 2 the Zook so u can't expect any real devastating performance from it with AP. But HE is just like any other explosives device.
Nooow, if we could just get destroyable environment - bunkers etc.  :) ::)
Negatory!

Zooka: 1942
M18 recoilless:1943

No shit!
I always thought it was before since the Zook took over (so to speak) the looks of the Recoilles. But actually it would make sense that it came after since there was a need for something lighter and smaller with still enough force 2 cause some damage.
Title: Re: Recoilles rifles
Post by: Eat Uranium on 25-06-2010, 18:06:03
No, the M18 weighed nearly 4 times as much as the bazooka (22.04kg and 5.8kg respectively).  The bazooka of course was less accurate, but weight does count for a lot.