Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Off-Topic => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Admiral Donutz on 30-05-2010, 11:05:20

Title: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 30-05-2010, 11:05:20
With the elections being on June 9th, the parties started their election campaigns about 1-2 weeks ago.   Parties are starting to spread their propaganda now, the first television and radio debates were last week and more are comming up. So it's full gear for all politcal parties to convince people to vote on them.

______________________________________________________________________
A quick summary of the Dutch politcal parties:
The Dutch politcal parties
 
 The Dutch have the following left(ish) parties:
- PvdA  (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_%28Netherlands%29")= Partij van de Arbeid (Party of [the] Labour), center left.
- SP (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_%28Netherlands%29") = Socialistische Partij (Socialist Party), left.
- GL (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GreenLeft") = Groen Links (Green Left), left.
- PvdD (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Animals") =  Partij voor de Dieren (Party for the animals), left.
 
 The following are conservative (and not uncommonly labeled as rightish):
- CDA (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Democratic_Appeal") = Christen Democratisch Appèl (Christian Democrat Party/Allience), a bit conservative a bit liberal
- CU (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChristianUnion") = Christen Unie (Christian Union), a more conservative party, also a bit more social (due to the social aspect of the bible)
- SGP (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staatkundig_Gereformeerde_Partij") = Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij  (Polical Calvinists Party), a very orthox/conservative party.
 
 The following parties are liberal (following the ideology of liberalism, often labeled as rightish):
- D66 (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrats_66") = Democraten '66 (Democrats '66) centrist/somewhat-liberal, it ain't extremely (economically) liberal orientated neither very social orientated.
- VVD (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VVD") = Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie (PeoplesParty for Freedom and Democracy), liberal party (socially but especially economically), favours coporations so to say.
 
 And the two "populist party's are also seen as liberal, and the political leaders actually left the liberal VVD party:
- PVV (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Freedom") = Partij Voor de Vrijheid (Party for [the] Freedom), individualist populist party, let by Geert Wilders.
- ToN (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trots_op_Nederland") = Trots op Nederland (Proud of the Netherlands), an other individualist  populist party.

(Bit outdated, 2006, compass):
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Krouwel_Space.JPG)

And then there are a few new and minor parties such as "Lijst 1" and I believe the Pirate Party is also running.. haven't heard much about those yet though...  It seems rather unlikely that they will win any seats.

And no, we don't have any silly First Past The Post systems, it's simple a representative vote to devide the 150 lower house seats.
________________________________________________________________________________

What have polls shown so far during the past weeks?

Just after the goverment stepped down, and during the municipal elections surveys indicated a the CDA to be head, closely followed by the PvdA and PVV.   Though things appear to have dramatically in the course of 4-5 weeks. It took me by suprise for sure. Just before my holiday in mid March, Geert Wilder's PVV party seemed to take 1st or 2nd place in surveys, but after I came back they lost a lot of support in favour of the liberal VVD.

Surveys:
Current polls predicts the following amount of seats:

VVD  (Conservative Liberals): 38 - 36 - 36
PvdA (Labour, SocialDem): 29 - 32 - 29
CDA (ChristianDemocrats): 25 - 20 - 25
PVV (Populist NationalConservative): 17 - 19 - 17
D66 (centrist/socialliberal): 9 - 12 - 9
SP (DemocraticSocialists): 10 - 9 - 11
GL (Greenparty): 11 - 9 - 11
CU (ChristianCons): 7 - 9 - 8
SGP (ChristianCons): 2 - 2 - 2
PvdD (Animalparty): 2 - 1  - 2
ToN (populist ConservativeLiberal): 0 - 1  - 0
Others (Pirate Party, Lijst 17, Human&Spirit party, ...): 0 - 0  - 0

Sources: Synovate (http://"http://www.politiekebarometer.nl/"), TNS Nipo (http://"http://www.tns-nipo.com/pages/nieuws-pers-politiek-tk2010.asp?file=persvannipo\pol_vvd_loopt_uit-26052010.htm") and Peil/deHond (http://"https://n9.noties.nl/peil.nl/"), respectively.

The reason? In February-March the main topic was intergration and safety. But now the main topic became economics (the whole deal with the euro, publication of the research into the banking crisis etc.). Wilders and his PVV ruled supreme in the intergration and safety debate but he's much weaker when it comes to economics. The VVD however has constistently hammered on fixing the economy, creating jobs and making the goverment more efficient (laying off  X goverment workers to safe money).

Possible coalitions: VVD+CDA+PVV, VVD+CDA+D66, VVD+PvdA+D66(+GL).
A leftish coalition (PvdA+SP+GL+D66) seems rather unlikely. So we may see a centrist (centre left, centrist, centre right) as usual, or a rightwing coalition. A right winged coalition with PVV would also be tricky due some majot disagreements between PVV on one side and the VVD and CDA on the other, mainly about intergration and the age of retirment. In additional several prominent (ex) party members have threatend to resign their membership of either the CDA or VVD party.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 30-05-2010, 12:05:56
Our parties are one big laugh...

Populist party's rule the political enviorment atm, and I am against all that nationalist crap they're putting us up with. Then we got the one-issue parties which should be forbidden. And I don't think religion and politics are a good rational combination (as religion is -in my opinion- not rational).

I would vote for the labour party (PVDA) or the democrats (D66)

We need a party for the common man in times of economic crisis and social unrest, not some right-winged party which lives in a fantasy world...

Then again, I'm sceptical about Dutch politics on it's own.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 30-05-2010, 12:05:51
I myself haven't made up my mind yet. I would call myself a liberal democratic-socialist. Favouring social liberties and to some extend also in the economy (but I don't trust big business so they do need to be kept in check via regulations) and ofcourse a fair amount of social justice, helping out the less or (temporary) unfortunate to get things back on track while trying to discourage leeches ("lazy bums") to profit/abuse the social welfare system. So that means I'd be most likely to vote between either SP (Socialst Party), PvdA (Party of Labour), GroenLinks (GreenLeft) or D66 (Democrats66). I have no idea yet as what I will be voting on.

In orevious elections I voted on either (or both, when my brother allowed me to vote for him ) SP and D66. Might go with one of those agian but this time around GL might be a bit more appealing then the SP. And the PvdA has taken some steps to the left again... so I don't rule them out either. Going to dig into those party programs somewhere this week to form a firm, well informed basis to base my final vote/decision on.

If you would force me to name just one party... D66. Reasonably social reasonably liberal.  Atleast they aren't stubborn when it comes to much needed eonomic reforms such as reorganizing the housing market (Hypotheekrenteaftrek: Mortageinterest tax deduction) or current laws regarding employement (ontslagrecht: Rights when it comes to laying people off). If you have a penthouse in Wassenaar you don't need that mortgage tax deduction, it was never meant to favour the rich that much. And if you run a business you should be able to fire people who got it comming to them without having to go through a couple of years of appeals, objections and so on. Obviously people shouldn't get into financial trouble over mortage related reforms, and a labourer shouldn't have to fear being able to be layed off for qustionable reasons.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Mud Buddha on 30-05-2010, 14:05:49
I'm so done with mainstream dutch politics (PVDA/VVD/CDA, you know, the mainstay parties) so I will again probably vote either SP or PVDD. Also the religious parties. It is just too plain weird that in 2010 we have a government ruling our lovely free spirited little country that is still largely made up of parties that base their morals on something backwards like christianity. Basically we have modernistic politicians in a post-modernistic age.

Most dutch politicians make Holland out to be this unsafe place on the brink of (economic) chaos to pull voters while in real life we live in one of the richest, safest, most modern countries in the world. They prey on individual insecureties of the population (terror! crisis! immigration!) while the bigger picture is a lot different.

Also, politicians like our last prime minister Balkenende are too scared to go against the grain on the worldwide political front and are just lapdogging the US and UK and well, basically every other country that's bigger than us. They all come with their billion euro saving solutions but if we for instance just forget about the Joint Strike Fighter we could save a lot of money in one go.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 30-05-2010, 17:05:14
We need someone steadfast, a leader, which dares to say what's on his mind. Without getting populistic/nationalistic.

I say the old mayor of Amsterdam -Job Cohen- together with the right subordinates will make a fine goverment.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Abuzer on 30-05-2010, 20:05:32
Hmmm, interesting to see such a deep discussion going on in English about this, also good to see the developed views of the Dutch FH community. Having studied Political Science and worked for a time in The Hague (governmental capital, like Bonn in the BRD) I'm quite suprised to have to go all the way to the FH off topics to find a decent topic about Dutch electoral politics.

However when it comes to my opinion, I don't have much to add to the previous posters.

All people who will vote for the PVV are either to stupid or plain racist, both those qualifications are compatible by the way. I really dislike the idea of a VVD-CDA-PVV government, something which will hurt the county in many aspects and probably won't even get rid of problems such as Moroccan youth criminals. Mortgage interest reduction (what was the proper English term again?) is a clear example of the stupidity in our country and frequently I have to lecture people in their 50's to what's actually right. It's a system making the rich even richer with government money, money we could spent on education or health care. It's also a shame that our leftist leaders can't condemn the right wingers for putting the fear of financial instability in regular people's head. But then again, our left wing parties don't want nuclear plants to return to the Netherlands, while according to scientists that is the most pragmatic thing to do.

Anyways, a VVD(which has some strong points as a party, can't deny that)-PVV(Pure populism and stupidity) and CDA (Christian orientated politics might be just as stupid) will polarize this country and even I will condemn the people that don't oppose a government like that. Might even have to get to the point that we will have to demonstrate!

Also, we are almost the richest country in the EU, our national debt is almost the lowest in the EU.
Get some goddamn improvements in the educational system! We can afford that at least. Thus. I think I will vote for the D'66 party, with some healthy "tegenzin"
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 30-05-2010, 20:05:33
Don't get me started over this bullocks but I will anyways because I do believe it's all bullshit but interesting nonetheless.

Anyways, Cohen is no go for me, he makes me facepalm so much  :P

Quote
Possible coalitions: VVD+CDA+PVV, VVD+CDA+D66, VVD+PvdA+D66(+GL).

Rutte himself said Purple would not happen, VVD refuses to go together with PvdA.

My personal favor goes to VVD and D66 at the moment. They both get first or second place in every 'test' and I agree with both parties plus the persons seem fit. For me, ideally, it would be VVD/D66/PVV but thats a dream on scenario. Most likely is your first one, VVD/CDA/PVV if they manage to convince Balkenende which is not hard lol.

Everything except for PvdA. They ruined it enough, let someone else ruin it now.

Again I see someone calling the PVV racist and if you studied Political Science and say that you failed your tests I assume. Racist is something else then islamophobic, which they are. They are not racist, it annoys me that everyone says hes against 'buitenlanders' thats bullshit. Not that I vote for him, tad to crazy if you ask me.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Smiles on 31-05-2010, 00:05:40
I still find it a disgrace for humanity PVV gets as many voters as they do. I will never forgive CDA for the VOC mentality(and they involve religion), VVD will never loose its image as hypocrital rich bastards, CU doesnt exist. PvdD is an one issue party wich is bull (go nature!), GL has yet to impress me with a sane program, i dont like Cohen but i hardly know him, SP were commies and now they arnt. D66 is to small and they fubared (especially with Alexander, alright, hes got some smood talking but it aint no difference). Meh, i dunno i dunno.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 31-05-2010, 00:05:32
Hmmm, interesting to see such a deep discussion going on in English about this, also good to see the developed views of the Dutch FH community. Having studied Political Science and worked for a time in The Hague (governmental capital, like Bonn in the BRD) I'm quite suprised to have to go all the way to the FH off topics to find a decent topic about Dutch electoral politics.
The topic still needs to develop, I simplified and summarized things quite a bit. For some real quality discussion and explinations (for foreigners...err... non-Dutchies) I'd need to write a few hundred lines of text at the very least. But that would probably put of most people, so I figured, give a somewhat simplified story, get the debate doing and offer additional insight whenever a (foreigner) asks about more details regarding certain aspects of our politics.


Rutte himself said Purple would not happen, VVD refuses to go together with PvdA.
He said he'd find it rather unlikely, and that the VVD and PvdA haven't been this far apart on both an economic and social scale since the 70's. Or said differently, the PvdA noticed they lost a lot of voters by praising the liberalisation of various markets as "the ultimate solution".  This agenda of  "the third road" (or what's it called again? Third wheel?) has allienated them a bit from their classic supporter base. Those moved to the SP and such.  So for these elections they changed their cours, returning more towards their roots again, and away from the liberal course they favoured in the 90's and for most of the past decade.

I wouldn't mind a new "Paarse" (purple) cabinet of VDD+PvdA (and D66+GreenLeft) at all. It wouldn't be perfect but it could be the best shot we'd have (in my opinion ofourse) at getting a program that wouldn't give big business too much of a free hand (VVD is a party for employers/business owners after all, cruedly speaking) but also should be able to keep us from being too social and making people somewhat "lazy" (sticking in the wellfare system rather then reintergrating and going back to work). 

I sure as hell don't want to see the CDA again, they seemed to get along with the VVD quite reasonably (though  I was pretty unhappy about all the bullcrap liberalisations they introduced, healthcare cheaper and more efficient? Lol... ). But apart from that they didn't get anything done. The last coalition was nearly a brain dead coalition that didn't get much done at all and failed to execute some major/larger items on either the CDA or PvdA agenda. All those topics were "too hot to handle". 
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Eglaerinion on 31-05-2010, 10:05:04
Hmmm, interesting to see such a deep discussion going on in English about this, also good to see the developed views of the Dutch FH community.

All people who will vote for the PVV are either to stupid or plain racist, both those qualifications are compatible by the way.
Deep discussion huh? I will never for the life of me vote PVV but claiming that over 1 million people are either stupid or racist? I knew this topic would end up being a joke. Good job.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Stefan on 31-05-2010, 11:05:06
If not satisfied im paying you to take all our Belgian politicians
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 31-05-2010, 11:05:06
If not satisfied im paying you to take all our Belgian politicians
You do realize this cost will atleast be over 1 billion?
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 31-05-2010, 12:05:18

Deep discussion huh? I will never for the life of me vote PVV but claiming that over 1 million people are either stupid or racist? I knew this topic would end up being a joke. Good job.
Racist? No, though they are a bit xenophobe (or perhaps cultiphobe, if that's a word...  fearing to lose "the" Dutch culture while culture ain't a static thing and can't be easily put in a box and labeled like "THE Dutch culture"). Dat zie je al aan de woordkeuzes, niet, "immigratie stop/reductie van kansarme migranten" maar "Immigratie stop van niet-westerse migranten".  Dat we niet teveel "kansarme" op kunnen nemen, allah (hehe), maar of je nu uit het hooggebergte komt of uit de Texaanse woestijn... dat doet er weinig toe.

And it remains difficult, sure I ain't too happy either when people get a partner from outside the EU (I don't know how high the number if import bridges/grooms is though), but on the other hand I wouldn't want to deny anyone true love and happiness. So such plans as banning import bridges/grooms is too blunt. What if I would fall in love with some woman from... well, name any country you like, I'd be pretty pissed if I couldn't let her emmigrate out of her country and immigrate into the Netherlands.  That some requirements are set up such as learning the language, being told about our laws, general habits/culture and that the family needs to have a sufficient income, that's all fair game.  

Luckily though, since the start of this decade more and more parties have acknowledge the migration problems and offered a variety of solutions (wether those are true solutions may depend on ones politcal believes though...).

If not satisfied im paying you to take all our Belgian politicians
Surely there must be a few reasonable ones... you can keep the Wallonian ones though... ;)
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: GooGeL on 31-05-2010, 12:05:46
Pirate party go! I've always liked to say yarrr.
Nah but at least they got some important topics that needs to be addressed. All the others only got empty promises and sells their vote.

Though, I don't know much about the dutchies politics.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 31-05-2010, 12:05:03
Pirate party go! I've always liked to say yarrr.
The least I expected from them was that their party leader would be dressed as a pirate, making YARRRR sounds randomly through the conversation and so on... I am dissapointed. :( :p

Quote
Nah but at least they got some important topics that needs to be addressed. All the others only got empty promises and sells their vote.

Though, I don't know much about the dutchies politics.
That's a bit of a contradiction not? ;) The opposition parties seem to hold true to their programs, cabinet coalition members have to sacrifse certain things. It ain't always easy. Whatever consensus you will find, somebody will always be displeased.  And if no concensus cna be made, yet other people will be annoyed.

That would be the advantage of a minority cabibet though: parties could stick to their own program, or team up with parties that have a simular view. On the downside: It would be a rather weak goverment, the cabinet or certain ministers could be sent home at pretty much any day, so it wouldn't exactly be a powerfull, leading cabinet/goverment.

Luckily though, with a proper majority coalition, parties are still free to vote along party lines in minor topics. But it's the major ones, the "controversial" ones that often require a compromise and in turn may upset the public: people being pissed of not getting a fair share of the pie, or having giving away too much and that thus the compromise is crap.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Smiles on 31-05-2010, 12:05:27
Quote
Deep discussion huh? I will never for the life of me vote PVV but claiming that over 1 million people are either stupid or racist? I knew this topic would end up being a joke. Good job.

Because they are. Its a barrel with gunpowder waiting for ignition. What do you think? any of these so called politicans really want the PVV to fuction like it does now after the elections? No they have an agenda for their own, no one can tell them what to do or what they say (hey if you repeat it long enough..) individual succes is what i call it. Theyve got elected in Almere, but choose to go opposition, why? Because only thn they can be usefull, shouting hard enough sying things need change, but coming up with ludacris, never working, to much costing "solutions". Its bullshit, its turning your back to democracy and saying F you idiots, ill do it my way. Sadly a lot of people amongst the herd are having trouble living, or atleast having trouble enjoying life. Mr Wilders looks like a jolly comic figure who'm promisis to give out  helping hand for the sobs. Wich brings me to my point: its  disgrace for humity, or atleast for the hard work the people have down since the '50's.
If you want to live in a fuck hole FINE, but realise The Netherlands aint. We live great, have no problems but boredom.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Abuzer on 31-05-2010, 12:05:11
First of all let me correct and apologize myself; racist was not the proper qualification. Mea culpa! Xenophobe seems more appropriate here. But yeah I can call 1 million people stupid. Wilders thrives on placing the link between Moroccan youth criminals and the Islam, and a lot of people think it is because of the Islam that Moroccan youth sometimes turns out the way they turn out. This is not the case; culture, economic position and backwardness account for their behaviour. And the weak attitude of the police and government here.
But it is just plain wrong to classify all Muslims in this manner, these people are here to stay and most of them are more modern and hard working than we can imagine (You would expect Wilders to know about all the peacefull Indonesian muslims)
So yes, when I say people are either xenophobe/discriminatory (if they get his story and still concur) or stupid (if they don't get his story but still vote for him). But don't worry, it isn't a crime to be stupid!  ;) Heck, we also got CDA and other christian parties, just as stupid in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: NTH on 31-05-2010, 16:05:22
I think I found a common trait among the Dutch FH2 members. D66 voters and FH2 players!

Off course this topic would focus in on the person tries to polarise the most.
But you know in the end he will make himself a laughing joke. Calling his standard voter Henk and Ingrid, tiresomely dredging up the "solve the immigration problem, will solve financial problems" rethoric.
I could see and hear in the last television debate that it almost sounded like he knew it was a frigging joke.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 31-05-2010, 17:05:25
Aargh! Too much reading since my last post!  :o

Also, we are almost the richest country in the EU, our national debt is almost the lowest in the EU.

Good point of discussion. In my opinion we pay way too much and get not enough in return (Either in the way of projects or in the say where our money should go). We waste money on the whole European cultural program if you ask me.
 
Get some goddamn improvements in the educational system!

Start with the Secondary school system because that's in the shitter.

Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 02-06-2010, 16:06:52
Heard about this game this morning, thought I would post it up.

Binnenhofbattle.nl (http://www.binnenhofbattle.nl/)
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 02-06-2010, 18:06:14
In the last week or so more parties revealed what kind of coalition they'd prefer:

-Citing my newspaper here-

The CDA would prefer to form a coalition with VVD, D66 and GroenLinks (GreenLeft). Those are parties that "are willing to reform", so said demissionary premier and CDA partyleader, Balkenende. Such a coalition would have about 83 seats (out of 150), based on recent surveys.

PvdA and PVV don't belong to those parties that are willing to reform, so says Balkenende. The CU is "to some extend" pro reform. This is the first time Balkenende announced such a clear preferance.

Some other parties have done the same: D66 leader Pechtold prefers the VVD, PvdA and GroenLinks: A new "Paarse" (Purple) cabinet. Halsema, of GroenLinks, wants a coalition that is "as progressive as possible". The PvdA mentioned no preferances. VVD leader Rutte, who is way ahead in the polls/surveys, has not declared is dream(coalition)combination. But he did say that a new Paarse (purple) coalition seems rather unlikely due to the huge differences with the PvdA.

Before Balkenende's dream has any chanche of realisation they will have to work some things out first, because he and D66 have conflicting "breaking points". Balkenende wants to keep the hypotheekrenteaftrek (MortageInterest(Tax)Deduction) untouched, while Pechtold demands reforms of this fisicale deduction option.

What did became clear however, is that the changes of a "Danish" coalition ( CDA and VVD ruling in a minority cabinet with "tolerance-support" of the PVV) have become smaller. According to CDA statesecretary Bijsterveldt a coalition with the PVV would mean no further progress, which would be a deterioration.

The reactions to Balkenende's statements were far from enthousiastic. D66 leader Pechtold sticks to his preferance of a "nieuw paars" (new purple) cabinet with VVD, PvdA and GroenLinks and not with the CDA. GroenLinks leader Halsma said she was suprised by these statements of Balkenende, and that is a signal from the CDA to the VVD to not to link up with the PVV.

The VVD has yet to show it's cards, but it did state that the CDA hasn't shown in recent years to be part of one of those reforming oriented parties. "Arrogant" is how PVV leader Wilders labels the attitude of the CDA: "The CDA sits on the throne and says 'with you and you I'd like to govern and with you and you not'."
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 02-06-2010, 19:06:09
CDA can prefer whatever they want, they are only going down anyways  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 04-06-2010, 22:06:21
interesting to note is that the Belgians will have a new government the same week to (Well , I mean elections, and hopefully a government by the end of the year).

But for us it's sort of clear who's gonna win: the separatistic NVA . Current polls suggest it will become the largest party of the Flemish part of Belgium(26%). Not bad for a party that alone probably didn't even  get 5% last federal elections.But it's not a wonder that they get this score in a certain point of view : all other parties have shown that they only consist of incapable members

The party has lots to owe due to the fact that the party head merely lost in the show "de slimste mens"(view at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3q3qvrNhes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3q3qvrNhes)), since other then Bart de Wever, the party does not have much to offer.

It's going to be a fun run towards the formation of a government, which is always a pain in the ass in Belgium, since it needs to consist out of Flemish and Walloon parties to form a government. Now think of that, when you know that the man who is going to win the election,  believes that Flanders should become independent...  (last formation only took them about a year and a half, followed by the resignation of that same government 3 months later ...)
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 05-06-2010, 00:06:07
Yeah, it's election time in Europe (well that is a bit of a generalisation but it's funny that the Chechz just had elections, and they got a centrum right goverment, the British just had elections and ended up with a centrum right goverment etc.). Our elections or on the Wednesday 9th, yours (Beglian elections) are on Sunday June 13th.

Chech elections in a nutshell:
Chech Republic a centrum right coaltion has been formed of the liberal Democratic Citizensparty (ODS, Občanská demokratická strana), rightwing conservative Tradition Responsibility Prosperity party (TOP 09 ,Tradice Odpovědnost Prosperita 09) and the new populist party Public Affairs (VV, Věci veřejné). Together they have 118 out of the 200 seats in parlaiment.

Belgian elections:
Care to give a rough background story of the Belgian elections (parties, espect seats and a general explination)?   The above information is nice bit too rough... =p

 I don't know a whole lot about Belgian politics besides all the shit we hear about it from problems regarding BHV, the stuff with VlaamsBelang etc.  The name of the party "Nieuw-Vlaamse Alliantie" (NVA, New Flamish Allience) is a major turn off for me. It's almost as bad as a name as "Trots op Nederland" (Proud/pride of the Netherlands). Lol.  Nationalism makes me sick, and so does populism and retarded promises of "restoring the country to the days when things were still good". Conservative, nationalist bullcrap. Atleast that's the first thing that comes to mind from just the party name (which don't always cover the ageda of a party accurately or cna be outright deceptive...).  

Bonus material (lets allow some space for some humour):

One of the broadcasting organisations on the public channels, the VPRO (Verenigde Progressive Radio Omroep, United Progressive Radio Broadcast) gave some artists the task of designing posters for the main parties. Posters that  devine the core principle/vision of each party.

They write: (...) In todays elections it's not only just about the story/program of a party but also about their image. One image can make or break a polician. The official party posters leave much to be desired. (...) We can do better, and more honest. (...) So we gave some illustrators the task of portraying the character of each party. No exceptions, every party gets the same threatment. (...).

I'll post the remarkable ones below, the rest of the images (11 in total) can be seen on the website mentioned as the source:
(http://weblogs.vpro.nl/nieuws/wp-content/blogs.dir/38/files/posters/TON.jpg)
Trots op Nederland (Proud/pride of the Netherlands)

(http://weblogs.vpro.nl/nieuws/wp-content/blogs.dir/38/files/posters/SGP.jpg)
For the right of inequality. Vote Deo Volente SGP.
Note: Deo Volente = god willing.

(http://weblogs.vpro.nl/nieuws/wp-content/blogs.dir/38/files/posters/PvdA.jpg)
Campaign bundel/collection. P of [the] Labour. Strong Together.

(http://weblogs.vpro.nl/nieuws/wp-content/blogs.dir/38/files/posters/PVV.jpg)
Stop thinking (for yourselves). PVV.
Note: The image shows Geert Wilders with a plate infront of his head. This refers to the Dutch saying "Met een bord voor de kop lopen" ("Walking around with a plate infront of your head"). Wich means you're not open to other peoples views/opinions/visions and thus can only see things your way (the one and only, "correct" way).

(http://weblogs.vpro.nl/nieuws/wp-content/blogs.dir/38/files/posters/CU.jpg)
God enlightens. Christen Union.

(http://weblogs.vpro.nl/nieuws/wp-content/blogs.dir/38/files/posters/CDA.jpg)
Balkenende Cabinet I, II, III, IV... and V?

Source: http://weblogs.vpro.nl/nieuws/2010/06/01/de-vpro-kiest-geen-partij

Bonus2: See the "bonus" post on the filefront forums (as the URL won't parse correctly here):
http://forums.filefront.com/pub/423736-dutch-parliamentary-elections-comming-up-3.html#post5332213

Or simply copy paste this in your URL bar and watch the last 10 seconds or so of the Minister of Social affairs driving through a red light. hehe_:
http://dewerelddraaitdoor.vara.nl/Video-list.627.0.html?&tx_ttnews[cat]=146&kalender=1275594568&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=17293&cHash=4ddd00d70f

^ I lol-ed when I was watching a popular current events/talk show "De Wereld Draait Door" (The world keeps on going around / The world goes around ), which perhaps can be compared just a little bit with the Daily show, be it with more interviews and less comedy. Anyway, during the comedy fragment they went to join (demissionary) minister of Social affairs and Employement, Donner. Donner cycles from his house to the parliament every day so they decided to interview him while cycling. Towards the end he can be seen well...
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 00:06:20
Tomorrow morning (or today... as it's 0:32 on Wednesday morning...) the polling stations open... I'm still in doubt on wether to vote on D66 or GroenLinks... or (less likely) a strategic vote for PvdA...

The debate on TV didn't really help (they rarely or never do to be honest) either. They mayhelp narrow things down a bit, but for me I'd be better of with a one on one debate between D66 and GL...
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 09-06-2010, 08:06:00
Pechtold, go for Pechtold!11

Don't screw our nation over with a 'strategic' vote for Job.  :P
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 09-06-2010, 09:06:15
Just one a quick note: It seems we make it a national sport to have elections here in the low countries as the Belgians are allways stumbeling over their French-Flemish background and the Dutch well we had 4 elections in 8 years...  :D

My vote goes for the labor party with Job Cohen.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: siben on 09-06-2010, 10:06:59
Just one a quick note: It seems we make it a national sport to have elections here in the low countries as the Belgians are allways stumbeling over their French-Flemish background and the Dutch well we had 4 elections in 8 years...  :D

My vote goes for the labor party with Job Cohen.

Well, it's not our fault that the wallon people don't want to follow the Belgian constitution. I hope the whole BHV issue ends now after NV-A will have a smashing victory. Our elections are next Sunday.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 10:06:44
I'm still undecided, GroenLinks seems to go a little bit too far with "green" aspects on a few points such as not favouring any widening of current roads. IMHO there a re a few bottlenecks that need to be fixed. On the other hand D66 may be a bit too liberal when it comes to economics... so my perfect program would be a combination of both, although I agree with about 90% of both of their programs...   I voted on D66 last time, so either I can support them again or give GL a try this time...  ohwell, still have some hours left to figure it out.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Thorondor123 on 09-06-2010, 11:06:04
(http://irishcalvinist.com/files/2006/07/jedi-mind-trick.jpg)
You will vote for GroenLinks.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Lightning on 09-06-2010, 11:06:00
These aren't the droids we're looking for. Move along.



I'm going to vote D66 today.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 13:06:04
(http://irishcalvinist.com/files/2006/07/jedi-mind-trick.jpg)
You will vote for GroenLinks.
Is that a prediction, or an order? =p

Once I know what I'll be (or have) voted on I'll let you people know.  Too bad my brother is home this week or I could have used his vote and casted one on D66 and one on GroenLinks...  xD
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Invincible on 09-06-2010, 13:06:51
I have the feeling D66 going to have allot of votes, almost all my friends vote D66.
I voted VVD, It was on second place in my "stemwijzers". I am Not going to vote PVV.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Thorondor123 on 09-06-2010, 13:06:54
Always in motion is the future. Such predictions I cannot make.

Is was more like friendly persuading ;D
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 14:06:14
I have the feeling D66 going to have allot of votes, almost all my friends vote D66.
I voted VVD, It was on second place in my "stemwijzers". I am Not going to vote PVV.

I'd be pleased with a large D66, and hopefully a progressive cabinet as a result.

The online tests such as Stemwijzer and Kieskompas aren't that useful besides general orientation. The topics they bring up can't really be ansered with "(Hell) yes", "dunno" or  "(hell) no".  I ended up with Partij van de Dieren (PvdD) with one, and the other... I forgot. Ofcourse it listed my favourit parties in the top 4 or so.  But simply looking at the result and picking number one or two wouldn't be an informed thing to do. At the very least it requires looking at the comments on why parties are for or against a certain item and what it ctually is they want. One party may be listed as "No, unless this and that" while an other says "Yes, but we don't want this and that"  and actually sharing a nearly identical viewpoint.  So the whole for/against thing is a bit misleading. I myself (and others I spoke with) couldn't realy answer the questions with  a simple yes or no either... so I  chose "neutral/dunno " quite a bit or shamelessly simplified the meaning behind a question aswell as the answer.

The VVD is cutting spending in too many areas if you ask me, it is known for the "partij voor de ondernemers/rijken" voor a reason.   Though with a bit of luck they'll give at some points such as the hypotheek rente aftrek (say: let's stick to D66s and PvdA's plan for it, in return we won't introduce a 60% tax rate for the most highest of incomes) or various other proposed cuts.

Always in motion is the future. Such predictions I cannot make.

Is was more like friendly persuading ;D
Hehe, alright.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: DLFReporter on 09-06-2010, 15:06:42
(http://irishcalvinist.com/files/2006/07/jedi-mind-trick.jpg)
You will vote for GroenLinks.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 09-06-2010, 15:06:01
Stop.

He will not, he will vote D66.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 16:06:24
I'm too lazy to translate this right now (well too bus actually, trying to find that bit of information that can help me make decide on wether to vote for D66 or GL), but here's something from the Cool Dutch CLub over at FF:

Ik weet het nog steeds niet...  De verschillen zijn klein, op sommige punten neig ik naar D66, op andere naar GL.

Vorige keer D66 (en SP) gestemt... dus mischien deze keer de kans geven aan GL... of D66 "belonen" ARGHHHHHHhhhhh. Had ik maar een tweede stemkaart.

Neem de verschillen:
Hypotheekrenteaftrek: D66 wilt de naar de 30% brengen, GL ook, en op termijn afschaffen. Is mij om het even, in iederval naar die 30% en dan zien we wel weer wat verstandig is (woningen moeten wel betaalbaar blijven).
AOW: Beide willen naar 67 in een jaar of tien. GL laat "vroege starters" stoppen na 45 dienstjaren. AL neem ik aan dat D66 dit ook wel zou steunen.
Zorg: D66 is voor marktwerking maar met mate (zorg moet boven winstbelang gaan), GL is tegen en redeneert ongeveer hetzelfd: zorg op 1, winst moet geen hoofdrol spelen. D66 vetrouwt hier meer op de markt en GL benadert dit met iets meer wantrouwen jegens de markt (artijen die winst willen maken). Ook lastig.. concurrentie zal vast helpen maar ik vetrouw al die managers niet... dus neig ik naar GL al heeft D66 ook wel een punt.
Ontslagrecht: D66 wil dit simpeler/flexibeler. GL is tegen. Ook een lastige. Flexibiliteit is belangrijk, een bedrijf moet een prutser er uit kunnen gooien, en dus geen rare situaties waar het goedkoper is mensen maar in dienst te laten ofzo. Anderzijds, een bedrijf moet niet zomaar mensen opstraat gooien (en nieuwe mensen inhuren in hun plaats) om een paar extra eurootjes en een bonus... Flexibel maar rechtvaardig zou mijn uitgangspunt zijn... dit is ietsje meer richting D66 meen ik...
Wegen / vervoer: Beide zijn voor thuiswerken, Openbaar vervoer, fiets.. GroenLinks wil echter enkele flessenhalsen niet aanpakken. Hier en daar een rondweg aanleggen die al 20 jaar geleden had moeten komen sluiten ze uit (A4 middendeland bijvoorbeed). Zelf wil ik een goede doorstroming: aanpakken van de knelpunten zoals flessenhalsen waar je een aantal kilometer van 3 naar 2 en dan weer 3 rijstroken gaat. Maar om nu er ruimhartig te zijn met nieuwe wegen... nee, dat ook niet. Nieuwe wegen slippen zo weer vol... D66 ligt hier meer op mijn pad, al is de kans dat zij met bepaalde VVD voorstellen qua infrastructuur iets te snel ja zeggen, GroenLinks wil mischien wel water bij de wijn doen en komt dan op zo'n beetje hetzelfde als D66 uit.
Conclusie: Waar zitten de risico's? D66 kan wellicht nu en dan iets doorslaan op liberaal economisch vlak, en GL op het gebied van natuur en milieu.
 
Dat zijn zo'n beetje de punten die ik me kan bedenken.. al met al, onder de einstreep score beide ongeveer gelijk.  :( / :)

ARGHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh

Quick translation/summary: With D66 there is the risk of them going too far in the liberal economical spectrum, and with GL when it comes to issues with the enviroment.  So do I rather have them liberalising the economics too much or them letting "green" outranking other important goals? 
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Eglaerinion on 09-06-2010, 17:06:14
As long as Labour with Cohen doesn't win it's fine by me. VVD, D66, CDA and maybe GL for a majority.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 17:06:57
I rather have Cohen (PvdA or Labour) as PM then Rutte (VVD or Liberals). I find the VVD too liberal when it comes to economics, they don't call it the "party for businessmen" for nothing :p . Though the PvdA is a bit too conservative when it comes to economic reforms. But overall I'd rank them:

1-2: D66 and GL
3: PvdA
4: Tricky one... in some areas the VVD has nice, liberal and progressive points but in others it goes too far, the SP would be more social in many aspects. So... either of those depnding on what they'd be willing to hand in for a coalition position.

Right now I'm leaning towards GL... though I do disagree with their view on nuclear energy... as a last resort it should be considered, though renewable energy obviously is prevered. But if I have to chose between coalplants and such or a nuclear power plant (or even an energt crisis), then I'd go with nuclear power.  That and they better build that A4 middendelfltand.  As I have voted D66 previously (and I think in the EU parliamential elections aswell... can't remember, perhaps it was SP or PvdA...) I'm willing to give GL tmy vote this time around... damn it, just give me two votes! I do see both potential good and bad points with either party.  

A new purple cabinet (PvdA, VVD, D66, GroenLinks) would be quite nice. :) Though PvdA, CDA, D66 and GL wouldn't be bad either if the CDA gave in enough, but that's rather unlikely. VVD, CDA, D66 and GL is also an acceptable option, aslong as they don't lean too much towards capitalism/economic-liberalism.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: DLFReporter on 09-06-2010, 18:06:57
Trust me, if it is either neo-capitalists or left-green, then always go for the latter!
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 09-06-2010, 18:06:28
I don't trust you.

I stand with Eglaerinion, anyone but Cohen lol.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Kubador on 09-06-2010, 18:06:46
If you don't like either side and want to vote, don't pick up the lesser good - just make your vote invalid. I do that and have clear conscience from that.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 09-06-2010, 18:06:43
Trust me, if it is either neo-capitalists or left-green, then always go for the latter!

Don't vote for econazi's !

They should all be putted naked on a ship, dropped onto an uninhibited isle , given some spears so they can live like adam and eve . 
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: DLFReporter on 09-06-2010, 19:06:45
Don't vote for econazi's !

Eco-Nazis? ^^
I knew Godwin's law would creep up on this thread sooner or later.  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 19:06:03
Trust me, if it is either neo-capitalists or left-green, then always go for the latter!
Correction: Social-Liberals (D66) and Greens (GreenLeft).

I decided in the voting boot... wen with...

*drums roll*

D66

It too advocates more green, enviromently friendly changes and all that, but a bit less radical: It does't really like nuclear power, but as a last resort they prefer it over coalplants. But they rather go with solar, wind enery and other forms of renewable energy.

Like hell I'd vote on a capitalist(ic) (=economic liberal) party.. so no I wouldn't vote on the VVD.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: NTH on 09-06-2010, 20:06:27
I have the feeling D66 going to have allot of votes, almost all my friends vote D66.
I voted VVD, It was on second place in my "stemwijzers". I am Not going to vote PVV.


I think I found a common trait among the Dutch FH2 members. D66 voters and FH2 players!

Off course this topic would focus in on the person tries to polarise the most.
But you know in the end he will make himself a laughing joke. Calling his standard voter Henk and Ingrid, tiresomely dredging up the "solve the immigration problem, will solve financial problems" rethoric.
I could see and hear in the last television debate that it almost sounded like he knew it was a frigging joke.

I voted VVD this time, kinda wanted to go with D66, but I just can't let PvdA become the biggest.
Their ideas are just not that inspiring.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 21:06:15
The polls closed 25 minutes ago, obviously it's too early to draw any conclusions, that will take several more hours.  I myself was split, and couldn't decide wether to vote on GroenLinks or D66. D66 has the risk of being a bit too liberal in economics (making it too easy to lay people off), GroenLinks might be a bit too much pro-green (and for example vote against fixing some motorway bottleneck). In the end, while I was in the votingboot, I decided to go with D66.

Hopefully we'll see a progressive cabinet: Paarse (purple) or a simular combination. I do't expect to see a "left wing" coalition (SP, PvdA, GrL, D66) , we haven't seen that in decades. But a centrist, progressive coalition would be nice aswell.
My prefered MP would be Cohen (PvdA), rather then Rutte (VVD)

Edit: First exitpolls predict the following. Obviously these predictions could be 1-2 seats off and with the predicted result this could have a serious result for potential coalitions. The largest party usually gets to try and establish a coalition first (and provide the MP).
CDA: 21 (41 now)
PvdA: 31 (33 now)
SP: 16 (25 now)
VVD: 31 (22 now)
PVV:  22 (9 now)
GrLinks: 11 (7 now)
ChrUn: 5 (6 now)
D66: 10 (3 now)
PvdD: 1 (2 now)
SGP 2 (2 now)
ToN: 0 (1 now, or 0 officially as Verdonk left the VVD rather then being elected into power with her own party).
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Lightning on 09-06-2010, 21:06:51
Quite a big swing to the right there.

Here's hoping for a VVD, PvdA, D66, GL coalition.



I'm a little disappointed with the large quantities of votes the PVV has gotten, but with the CDA's huge losses it will be impossible for them to get into the government, which is good.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 09-06-2010, 22:06:52
Quite a big swing to the right there.

Here's hoping for a VVD, PvdA, D66, GL coalition.



I'm a little disappointed with the large quantities of votes the PVV has gotten, but with the CDA's huge losses it will be impossible for them to get into the government, which is good.
Yep, I agree. 

On one hand though I'm happy with this turnout for the PVV. They go against pretty much all I believe in, but they might have stolen a couple of votes, perhaps decisive votes, from the VVD. 

A coalition without CDA would be nice, though I predict we'll see them in a new coalition in 4 to  8 years from now. Throughout history they have been very dominant and been in nearly every coalition. 
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 00:06:29
20% of the votes counted. The following results are in (and have been weighted, as the smaller (rural) towns obviously can call in the final results earlier):
CDA: 21 (41 now)
PvdA: 32 (33 now)
SP: 15 (25 now)
VVD: 31 (22 now)
PVV: 23 (9 now)
GrLinks: 9 (7 now)
ChrUn: 5 (6 now)
D66: 10 (3 now)
PvdD: 1 (2 now)
SGP 2 (2 now)
ToN: 0 (0 / 1 now)

Right now the PvdA is in the lead, but I wouldn't be uprised if it ends in a draw of 31 again... or going by the polls in the past weeks, that the VVD wil indeed win. Obvously personally I am hoping for a larger PvdA with Job Cohen as our president. A draw would make a coalition talks very interesting/difficult. IF the PvdA and VVD would join in a coalition... then it would be quite tricky to decide on who would become Minister-President...

Edit: 25% counted now:
CDA: 21 (41 now)
PvdA: 31 (33 now)
SP: 15 (25 now)
VVD: 32 (22 now)
PVV: 23 (9 now)
GrLinks: 10 (7 now)
ChrUn: 5 (6 now)
D66: 10 (3 now)
PvdD: 1 (2 now)
SGP 2 (2 now)
ToN: 0 (0 / 1 now)
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 01:06:54
42% counted now:
CDA: 22 (41 now)
PvdA: 31 (33 now)
SP: 15 (25 now)
VVD: 31(22 now)
PVV: 23 (9 now)
GrLinks: 10 (7 now)
ChrUn: 5 (6 now)
D66: 10 (3 now)
PvdD: 1 (2 now)
SGP 2 (2 now)
ToN: 0 (0 / 1 now)

Turnout: 73%, kinda low. The avarage is around 80%.
The head to head struggle between the PvdA and VVD is quite exciting. Beats a football match for sure. =p

Balkenende announced that he resigns as party leader and he won't be taking a seat in parliament.

______________________________________
Results in my town of Zoeterwoude:
Zoeterwoude (turnout: 78,8%)

Party...................2010.......2006..........Difference
CDA....................19,8%....... 38,2%.....-18,40%
PvdA....................16,2%.........14,3%........1,90%
SP.........................7,8%.........12,4%.......-4,60%
VVD....................23,8%.........16,6%.........7,20%
PVV....................13,1%...........5,6%...........7,50%
GroenLinks ...........7,1%...........5,2%...........1,90%
ChristenUnie.........1,2%...........2,3%..........-1,10%
D66.....................8,0%.........1,7%.............6,30%
PvdD..................1,4%........... 2,0%...........-0,60%
SGP.................... 0,7%.........0,7%......... 0,00%
Others: ...............0%

During the Municipal elections the CDA got 6 seats, ProgressiveZoeterwoude (shared party of PvdA, D66, GL) 5 seats, VVD 2 seats.  Lots of farms here so the CDA has always been popular.

Live tracking of the votes: http://nos.nl/dossier/141463-nederland-kiest/tab/46/live/
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 01:06:34
I'm interested in what foreign news agencies have to report on our elections?

BBC news:
Quote
Dutch parties in tight race, exit polls suggest

The Dutch election is heading for a close finish as an exit poll suggests the two main parties are neck and neck.
The poll showed the free-market VVD and the Dutch Labour Party each winning 31 seats in the 150-seat parliament.
They also indicated that the anti-Islam party led by Geert Wilders was on course to win more than the party led by outgoing Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende
Mr Balkenende resigned as party leader as his Christian Democrats' share of the vote plunged.

The AFP news agency reported him as saying he took "political responsibility" for the result.

The election - the fourth since 2002 - was called after the government fell over the Dutch mission in Afghanistan.
The free-market People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD), which has promised deep cuts in public spending, had led opinion polls as Wednesday's election day approached.

The exit poll was commissioned by the country's three largest news organisations, including the state-funded broadcaster, and have proved to be accurate to within a few seats in recent years.
They suggested that Mr Wilders's Freedom Party had won 23 seats, ahead of the prime minister's Christian Democrats with 21.

Mr Balkenende also resigned his parliamentary seat as his Christian Democrats lost 20 seats to finish with 21 out of 150, exit polls suggested.
He described the result as "disappointing".
"I have informed the party chairman that I will lay down my party membership with immediate effect," Mr Balkende, 54, AFP quoted him as saying.

The campaign was dominated by the economy and budget cuts.
The government fell when the Labour Party withdrew from the government after refusing to extend the Dutch contribution to the Nato force, as Mr Balkenende wanted.
Dutch troops are therefore expected to leave Afghanistan by August.
Political analysts said voters had appeared tired of Mr Balkenende's center-right Christian Democrats.

The VVD, run by Mark Rutte, has advocated steep budget cuts, a pared-down government and a reduction in benefits for immigrants.
The Netherlands is the first country in the eurozone to vote since a crisis erupted earlier this year over the single European currency, amid concerns about debt in Greece and other southern states.
The Dutch economy was contracting for a year before the country emerged from recession in the third quarter of 2009.
The government expects a deficit of 6.3% of gross domestic product (GDP) this year. Borrowing costs for the country have edged higher over worries about the ability to pay back loans, Reuters news agency reported.
'Crippling' risk

But Job Cohen, the Labour leader, has said Mr Rutte's cuts could hamper an economic recovery, comparing them to electroshock therapy.
"You know what happens when you give an electric shock: there are great risks of crippling" the economy, he said in a final TV debate on Tuesday.
If the VVD gains the largest share of the votes, Mr Rutte has said he wants to have a coalition in place by 1 July.
The gains made by Mr Wilders could allow him to make or break a new right-wing coalition government, correspondents say.
But Mr Wilders - whose hallmark is his strident attacks on Islam and the perceived failure of immigration policy - has struggled to make a big impression against the grim economic outlook, the BBC's Jonny Dymond reports from Amsterdam.

The count was expected to take several hours. Voters have returned to paper-and-pencil balloting amid fears over the reliability of new technology.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10271153.stm

CNN seems to have used the proper term "liberal" for th VVD. =p
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/06/09/netherlands.elections/index.html?hpt=Sbin
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 03:06:01
93,9% counted now:
CDA: 21 (41 now) 13%
PvdA: 30 (33 now) 19%
SP: 15 (25 now) 9%
VVD: 31 (22 now) 20%
PVV: 24 (9 now)15%
GrLinks: 10 (7 now) 6%
ChrUn: 5 (6 now) 3%
D66: 10 (3 now) 7%
PvdD: 2 (2 now) 1%
SGP 2 (2 now) 1%
ToN: 0 (0 / 1 now) 0%
Others: 0 (0  now) 0%
Total: 150  (150) 100%


Voter turnout: 74,5% (bit low)

Looks like the liberal VVD will become the largest party with about 0,75% more votes (47.000 more votes). :(
Though the votes from aboard still need to be announced, and the PvdA (Labour) and GL (GreenLeft) has  a "connection"  which gives them a slight atvantage, they agreed to split some "remaining votes". So  it could still become a draw, but it seems unlikely.

Coalitions (76 needed for a majority):
VVD+PvdA+GL+D66 = 81
VVD+CDA+PVV = 76
PvdA+CDA+GL+D66+SP= 86
Leftwinged: PvdA+SP+GL+D66= 65

Clearly the ChristianDemocrats lost a whole lot, and the PVV of Wildersscored quite some votes, although less then predicted 2-3 months ago.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 08:06:29
'Tis a good day today  :)

Luckily PvdA lost from VVD. Can't say how relieved I am, finally a bit more rightwinged things into Dutch society which is overly dominated by socialists.

Paars Plus will fail though, onto a right cabinet!
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 09:06:09
I sure hope Paars won't fail, I'm tired of the last decade of mainly conservatism. We either had conservatist liberalism (CDA and VVD) and a tiny little bit of a social faced conservatims with the CDA and PvdA). Not much progress was made at all, except maybe the agenda of the Christen Democrats. 

It's them who have dominated the politcs for decades, with the only few exceptions being about 1 social coalition back in the 60's or something and a liberal coalition progressive coalition in the 90's (paars). The socialist have been on the side line pretty much all the time (The Socialist party never was in any coalition), and the social democrats (PvdA) have been in less coalitions then the CDA. Besides having to water down their SocialDemocrat (which does not equal socialism!) agenda they also were pretty centrist when they copied a lot of the VVD (liberals) agenda of advocating "Third Way" liberalism together with the VVD.

Atleast the power is now back with progressive parties, let's just hope we see an other centrist coalition (as... well pretty much most coalitions since WW2)  and not a right winged one.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: NTH on 10-06-2010, 11:06:30
Ughh can't believe PVV won this many votes. Do the voters really believe that with Wilders in the government all Islamic people in Holland will get booted out of the country ??

I almost would say let them be in the ruling coalition, so we can have a rerun of the LPF disaster and be done with it.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Invincible on 10-06-2010, 11:06:39
I call myself the winner of this threat since I voted VVD.



....urgh
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 12:06:46
Ughh can't believe PVV won this many votes. Do the voters really believe that with Wilders in the government all Islamic people in Holland will get booted out of the country ??

I almost would say let them be in the ruling coalition, so we can have a rerun of the LPF disaster and be done with it.

No they don't, thats a very small fraction. Most people I asked go for his general points about punishment of criminals, AOW, studiebeurs and just sort of reforming the cramped Dutch government as it used to be.

The people I know who vote on him say those points made them vote and believe that his extremist ideas wont go through as they need to be approved by other parties, those will never agree. And if he fails, the cabinet will fall so then it's over for him.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Smiles on 10-06-2010, 12:06:37
If PVv gets in a coalition ill. ... ... .. . And about the VVD, im worried, not only i know a lot of people who are stuck in the mud healthcare wise, but also im afraid of excluding politics next 4 years. I HOPE VVD goes with PVV and CDA to fuck up big time again. Let m fuck up our country for a year, let m see what they got to "make everything right wich left fucked up".

And Fuchs, bring the facts, like you always do with ww2, how exactly did PvdA do wrong? last 4 coalitions where dominated by the christians, the LPF wich is the same is PVV, and VVD.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 13:06:44
Personal preferences Smiles, nowhere did I say they did do wrong in my last few posts, I just feel way more comfortable with VVD's ideas then with PvdA's view on things and the majority agrees.

All I really want is some balance in the Dutch media as it's all leftist. Public channels are leftist, newspapers are leftist, etc.

Ofcourse there is some right stuff but even thats annoying. Wish some newspaper dared to be neutral on not spill propaganda in every article, particulry annoyed me with Trouw and Vrij Nederland, Wilders bashing on one page and Cohen praising on the other one, tired of that.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 13:06:03
Ughh can't believe PVV won this many votes. Do the voters really believe that with Wilders in the government all Islamic people in Holland will get booted out of the country ??

I almost would say let them be in the ruling coalition, so we can have a rerun of the LPF disaster and be done with it.
I"m not sure how many people are actually islamofobic, perhaps 10+ seats or so. The rest might mostly be just for the "we will close the borders for (all) immigrants" even though other parties have promised the same or came quite close. So for people who are concerned with the immigration (and perhaps intergration) topic, you wouldn't be limited to just the PVV. But perhaps these people are a bit more conservative on other areas such as reforming the labour market, housing market, education and ofcourse wellfare, where they couldn't identify themselves with either VVD, CDA or SP. Ofcourse they could have voted for Trots op Nederland too but as she was kinda portrayed as a loser and at the very least failed to get any media attention people who might have had a close match with ToN went to the PVV instead.

But yeah, although I'm hoping for a Paars (purple) cabinet who is willing to reform, get the economy back on track although not makking the cuts too exessive to become unsocial or outright brutal. A purple cabinet in theory could reform the labour market in a social-liberal way, the housing market, education and all that. If the VVD and PvdA can give up some "heilige huisjes" ( "sacred house" aka taboos). WHich basically mean both would need to water down their program to be more in line with D66 and GroenLinks ( :D ).

But on the other hand, I fear that the VVD might want to cut too drastically, at the cost of the lower and middle class and in favour of the elite (higher class).  So if the VVD wouldn't be willing to water down it's program enough I'd rather have them join a coalition with CDA and PVV. It would be a very cold hearted coalition who'd fuck us all in the  arse aswell as probably damaging our image abroad and gaining less in the long term. But perhaps it would wake people up a bit that going too the conservative right wing spectrum isn't too smart (in my opinion atleast...), the coalition would most likely fall and we'd see people returning to the CDA and other (established) parties. Not that the CDA is all that great (right-of-centre conservatives is what they are).

And thus we'd end up with a centrist coalition, like we have had for decades. Sometimes the accent was towards rightwing-conservatism, rightwing-liberalism, social-left etc.

Personal preferences Smiles, nowhere did I say they did do wrong in my last few posts, I just feel way more comfortable with VVD's ideas then with PvdA's view on things and the majority agrees.
Hmm well overall we seem to have moved to the right a bit. Though it would be interesting if we'd asked all voters who'd they prefer if they could only chose between VVD and PvdA. Currently that might be won with a small margin by the VVD if we'd shamelessly asume that most CDA, SGP, CU and PVV people would go to the VVD. The SP, GrL, part of the CU and part of D66 would go to PvdA. Perhaps it would be a 55-60% vs 45-40% in favour of the VVD.

Quote
All I really want is some balance in the Dutch media as it's all leftist. Public channels are leftist, newspapers are leftist, etc.
Lol. The public channel is filled with broadcasters then openly support various christian views (and with that, most likely the CDA, CU and SGP), about two-three lefties (the VARA and VPRO might favour social-democrats) and now we have Pwnd and that program by the Telegraaf who quite clearly favour the conservative right wing liberals (VVD and PVV).  So overall it's rather centrist.

As for the newspapers, The Volkrant is progressive (leftist), the NRC.. centrist I believe, The AD liberal ( ? ), the Financial papers are commonly seen as liberal aswell for obvious reasons, and the Telegraaf, which is the most popular newspaper of all... it clearly a populist liberal (right wing) newspaper.

As for the radio.. dunno, could be that there are a whole bunch of "hippies" and "artistic peopel" (lefties) there.
Quote
Ofcourse there is some right stuff but even thats annoying. Wish some newspaper dared to be neutral on not spill propaganda in every article, particulry annoyed me with Trouw and Vrij Nederland, Wilders bashing on one page and Cohen praising on the other one, tired of that.
I don't read Trouw, but it atleast historically used to be an orthodox-protestant newspaper, which would put them in the pro-christain pool and this right wing conservatist. 

Didn't they conduct some sort of invesitgation to see how neutral or biased the (public) media was? And that it was rated as being mostly either "social" (leftish) and "christians" (conservative) but that it did lack a  liberal sound, which is why we got Pwned and that Telegraaf program in right now. The NOS (Dutch Public News) was rated as overall quite neutral I thought.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Lightning on 10-06-2010, 13:06:55
leftist [...] Wilders bashing
Newspapers are bashing Wilders because he's an idiot, not because he's right-winged and they are left-winged...
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 13:06:25
Sorry Donutz, I first wrote about Christian/leftist but then wasn't happy about my text so rewrote it without Christians, my bad as I do mean Christian media too  :P

Trouw currently is filled to the brim with PvdA advertising hidden in all articles, it starts neutral but ends with the conclusion that the PvdA is obviously right in everything.

Yeah theres the Telegraaf, sort of right winged newspaper but high gossip percentage. PowNed is nice but only 15 minutes before midnight (IIRC). Telegraaf's project is something I have not yet seen so can't judge that yet but I did understand they too go for some more rightside in the leftside bowl.

Well Lightning, if they really do that it's time they stop as it's damn annoying, their 'news' consists of blackmailing Wilders and even if he is an idiot it doesn't disprove the fact they are constantly bashing the right side and praising the left side.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: NTH on 10-06-2010, 13:06:55
Sorry Donutz, I first wrote about Christian/leftist but then wasn't happy about my text so rewrote it without Christians, my bad as I do mean Christian media too  :P

Trouw currently is filled to the brim with PvdA advertising hidden in all articles, it starts neutral but ends with the conclusion that the PvdA is obviously right in everything.

Yeah theres the Telegraaf, sort of right winged newspaper but high gossip percentage. PowNed is nice but only 15 minutes before midnight (IIRC). Telegraaf's project is something I have not yet seen so can't judge that yet but I did understand they too go for some more rightside in the leftside bowl.

Well Lightning, if they really do that it's time they stop as it's damn annoying, their 'news' consists of blackmailing Wilders and even if he is an idiot it doesn't disprove the fact they are constantly bashing the right side and praising the left side.

Fuchs, you have a large case of self-fulfilling prophecy. When I look at RTL, Telegraaf, PowNed, BNR, NRC, Elsevier en Nieuwe Revu. They are right of the centre.

I do agree with you that's it's annoying when media show any blatant bias.

@Rob
Wilders said in his victory Speech: "We have had enough of Islam in the Netherlands".
It will be a real disillusion for people who voted for him, if they think this is not the main pillar of his party.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 14:06:16
I meant to psot this earlier but here's a generic overview by some proffesor in politics, the same one that made the compass posted on page 1 for the 2006 elections:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Pol-landschap-2010.gif)

It doesn't seem too far off, though the SP might be a bit more conservative then suggested here and the PVV a bit more to the right (perhaps certain views on say the WAO, social security and such dragged him a bit too the left?).

Regarding the media bias:
Newspapers:  "Newspapers are more likely to be right winged rahter then left winged" according to a study by political scientist André Krouwel. "The Telegraaf is quite clearly right winged with headlines such as 'the Dutch are pressured/pushed into paying their taxes on time'. The Volkskrant is more leftish but not as leftish as the Telegraaf is rightish".

Leftish newspaper: Volkskrant
Christian (conservative, rightish): Trouw, Reformatorisch Dagblad
Liberal: Financieel Dagblad, Algemeen Dagblad, Telegraaf
See: http://medianetwerk.ning.com/profiles/blogs/2159784:BlogPost:863

Television bias:
"The news agencies NOS (public news agency), and RTL (commercial news agency) mostly just follow those in power: covering the party leaders (of those in the coalition), the Leftish opposition don't have much to say" according to the above mentioned political scientist.
Source: http://www.denieuwereporter.nl/2008/10/onderzoek-naar-politieke-kleur-nader-bekeken/

And about the NOS:
Quote
Zelfonderzoek naar kleur van de Publieke Omroep

In november 2007 kondigde de Publieke Omroep onderzoek te gaan (laten) doen naar de vermeende "linksheid" van zichzelf.[3] Naast de kleur van de omroep moet ook duidelijk worden of de publieke omroep zich op de maatschappelijke elite of juist op het volk richt, op autochtonen of allochtonen en op randstedelingen of op mensen uit "de provincie".
[bewerken] Enquête over politieke kleur

In een uitzending rondom het 50-jarig jubileum presenteerde het NOS Journaal de resultaten van een door bureau Peil.nl gehouden enquête, waarin de ondervraagden was gevraagd of de berichtgeving van het journaal politiek gekleurd zou zijn. Op de vraag of het NOS journaal in het algemeen aan objectieve nieuwsberichtgeving doet, antwoordde 81 procent van de ondervraagden bevestigend. Desondanks werd de invalshoek van het NOS-Journaal door 36 procent als links ervaren, tegenover 60 procent als neutraal en 2 procent als rechts. 56 procent stelde van de Nederlandse nieuwsprogramma's het meest naar het NOS Journaal te kijken, en 68 procent van de respondenten stelde dat het NOS Journaal kwalitatief het beste nieuwsprogramma maakt als het gaat om objectieve nieuwsberichtgeving. Opvallend in dit onderzoek is dat de mate waarin het journaal als objectief wordt gezien sterk afhangt van de politieke kleur van de ondervraagde. Van de ondervraagden die in 2003 Wilders stemden vond 61% het journaal over het algemeen objectief, bij GroenLinks was dat 99%. Bij de vraag wat kwalitatief het beste nieuwsprogramma was komt een soortgelijk beeld naar voren, van LPF (24%) tot GroenLinks (85%).[4]
[bewerken] Interne schaduwverkiezing in 2002

(...)

De huidige hoofdredacteur schreef in 2003 op de site van het NOS Journaal dat hij twijfelde of het Journaal wel objectief genoeg was. Ik heb me ook gerealiseerd dat we bevooroordeeld zijn. In de Verenigde Staten is het boek 'Bias' van ex-CBS-journalist Bernard Goldberg een bestseller geweest. Hij zegt daarin met grote stelligheid dat de media de neiging hebben -onbewust, niet eens vanuit een samenzwering, ik zei het al- nieuws vanuit een eenzijdig, progressief getinte invalshoek te bekijken. En we weigeren er stil bij te staan. "When it comes to arrogance, power, and lack of accountability, journalists are probably the only people on the planet who make lawyers look good", citeert Goldberg. Hij verklaart erin dat journalisten bij rechtse groepen heel snel over extreem-rechts schrijven, maar dat aan de linkerkant bijna nooit doen. Hoe pro-abortus-activisten empathischer worden behandeld dan anti-abortus-activisten. En -ook al overdrijft-ie af en toe- inderdaad, wij doen dat ook. Ik heb nog eens een lange discussie op de redactie gevoerd over mijn stelling dat het niet aan ons is te spreken over "de oorlogszuchtige president Bush".[9]
Source: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOS_Journaal
Bonus: http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Cultuur-Televisie/188885/Toch-geen-onderzoek-naar-linkse-publieke-omroep.htm?forum=181955

So in all that sounds quite neutral, with perhaps a small, unintentional bias towards the "progressive elite" (which could be both (democratic)socialists and liberals and thus a bit left but also right winged).

 :P

Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 14:06:34
I wholeheartidly disagree with that research, Trouw is definately leftist, just received the newspaper for a while, twas free and an extra paper doesn't matter and the leftist level was high :P

For me AD is very neutral on most points, always read that newspaper on work. Must say it's my favourite one, maybe that also plays with the judgement as we do like to see our own views as neutral but still I feel like it's quite neutral.

Reformatorisch is definately Christian, in the name already lol.

Fuchs, you have a large case of self-fulfilling prophecy. When I look at RTL, Telegraaf, PowNed, BNR, NRC, Elsevier en Nieuwe Revu. They are right of the centre.

I do agree with you that's it's annoying when media show any blatant bias.

Disagree on RTL but again they cover both sides, agreed on Telegraaf, PowNed is new, NRC not really; more just neutral, Elsevier definately, Nieuwe Revu is something I never really checked on but I did read Castricum has a column there.

NOS wins the neutrality awards though, thumbs up for them.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 14:06:31
Sorry Donutz, I first wrote about Christian/leftist but then wasn't happy about my text so rewrote it without Christians, my bad as I do mean Christian media too  :P
Hehe, alright.

Quote
Trouw currently is filled to the brim with PvdA advertising hidden in all articles, it starts neutral but ends with the conclusion that the PvdA is obviously right in everything.

Yeah theres the Telegraaf, sort of right winged newspaper but high gossip percentage. PowNed is nice but only 15 minutes before midnight (IIRC). Telegraaf's project is something I have not yet seen so can't judge that yet but I did understand they too go for some more rightside in the leftside bowl.
I'd have to take you worth on it. Perhaps they were sick an tired of the CDA and for the lack of a Protestant (progressive) chrisitan party the next closest party could be the PvdA. Bu this is jsut speculation from my end.


Fuchs, you have a large case of self-fulfilling prophecy. When I look at RTL, Telegraaf, PowNed, BNR, NRC, Elsevier en Nieuwe Revu. They are right of the centre.
I do admit I view RTL as a bit populist and more geared towards newstainment. And as it is populism seems to be more frequently associated with "(somewhat) right winged". The RTL news, though I don't watch it often, seems... alright when it comes to bias. Don't know about those newstainment programs.. I'd be tempted to label them as "populist, somewhat right winged".  But this could be bias on my sight as I almost always want o stab my eyes, ears and brains out if I am exposed to shitty tabloid style journalism.

From the above it shouldn't be too difficult to guess what my opinion of the Telegraaf is. I myself only read a local newspaper (Leidsch Dagblad, which seems pretty neutral to me, with the odd slightly biased articles towards pretty much any scale on the politcal spectrum.

Quote
I do agree with you that's it's annoying when media show any blatant bias.
Yes, though I'd hope/assume few people oppose of an unbiased media (or atleast a media that genuinly tries to be objective, but they too may fail for a variety of reasons).

Quote
@Rob
Wilders said in his victory Speech: "We have had enough of Islam in the Netherlands".
It will be a real disillusion for people who voted for him, if they think this is not the main pillar of his party.
Yeah, those one liners and shameless generalisations are quite tiresome. The main pilar quite clearly is "the immigration problems and failed intergration... and this almost always happen to be Islamists", which gets simplied in one liners such as "stop the flood of muslims" etc.

Reducing the amount of "kansloze immigranten" makes sense, but that is already a generalisation. In certain areas of the labour market we have a shortage or may expect a shortage of men. To fill in those gaps we probably will have to count on immigrants. Both highly educated ones but also "uneducated" ones.  So that's one reason why I raise the "stop that BS" flag in regards to Wilders.  That we may demand people to abide the law and respect our culture (which doesn't equal copying it!) is also a given. Most parties do acknowledge these.. well.. facts though. But they differ in opinion on solutions to certain problems.

I wholeheartidly disagree with that research, Trouw is definately leftist, just received the newspaper for a while, twas free and an extra paper doesn't matter and the leftist level was high :P

For me AD is very neutral on most points, always read that newspaper on work. Must say it's my favourite one, maybe that also plays with the judgement as we do like to see our own views as neutral but still I feel like it's quite neutral.

Reformatorisch is definately Christian, in the name already lol.


Sadly the article doesn't link to the actual report but only made a very general summary, which I summarized further. Actually it listed which politcal parties read which newspapers and the AD for example was popular among the VVD.   I haven't read the AD often but it seems fairly neutral from what I can remember, the NRC... not so bad either.  Haven't read it in years though.

Oh and about the NOS. Ferrie Mingele appeared to be a closet liberal though. Making a comment along the lines of "and let's now ask the future coalition leader *faces Rutte". Hehe. IThat wasn't the most wisest (neutral) phrase to use, but I'm sure it was meant un a humourist way.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 17:06:17
No, Ferrie is not a closet-liberal. More a closet-socialist. You seen the last debate how he gave Cohen 3 times more speaker time then all the others?  :P
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 17:06:51
No, Ferrie is not a closet-liberal. More a closet-socialist. You seen the last debate how he gave Cohen 3 times more speaker time then all the others?  :P
If he was a closet-socialist he'd have granted Roemer of the SP more time. ;) This would make him a closet Social-Democrat. Or if he also kinda likes Rutte, he might be a closet liberal-social-democrat (D66, GroenLinks spectrum). Hehehe.

__________________________________________________________________
Possible coalitions (requires 76 or more seats):
VVD+CDA+PVV = 76 "Right winged"
VVD+PvdA+GL+D66 = 81 "Purple+"
VVD + PvdA + CDA = 82 "National coalition"
PvdA+CDA+GL/D66+SP= 76 "Centrist Left winged"
PvdA+CDA+GL+D66+SP= 86 "Centrist Left winged"
VVD+PvdA+SP=76 "(social) Liberal conservatist"

PvdA+SP+GL+D66= 65 "Leftwinged" (minority)

So let's take a look at what binds or sets these parties apart that may form various coalitions:
Housing:
- Change "Mortageinteresttaxdeduction"? yes: PvdA, SP, GL, D66 no: CDA, VVD, PVV
- More "market influence" in rental sector? yes: CDA, PvdA, VVD, GL, D66 no: SP, PVV
- Change/cut "transfer tax" on buildings? yes: PvdA, VVD, GL, D66. unknown: CDA, SP, PVV
- Change/cut taxes on notional rental value for owners-occupiers ? yes: PvdA, VVD, GL, D66 no: CDA unknown: SP, PVV
- Rise in rents higher then inflation? yes: CDA, PvdA, VVD, GL, D66. no: PVV, SP

Education:
- Higher budget:  yes: PvdA, SP, VVD, GL, D66. no: CDA, PVV
- Studyloan instead of "gift": yes: PvdA, VVD, GL, D66. no: CDA, SP, PVV
- Free schoolbooks: yes: CDA, PvdA, SP. no: VVD, PVV, GL, D66
- More money to teachers: yes: CDA, PvdA, SP, VVD, GL, D66. no: PVV
- Social apprenticeship program:  yes: CDA, PvdA, SP, PVV. no: VVD, GL, D66
- Special (religous) schools have to accept all pupils who promise to respect the school?: yes: PvdA, SP, VVD, GL, D66 no: CDA, PVV

Internal affairs:
- Less officials: yes: PvdA, GL, SP, D66, CDA, VVD, PVV no: -
- Federal police: yes: VVD, PVV no: PvdA, SP, D66 unknown: GL, CDA
- abolish "water(works) boards/councils":  yes: PvdA, GL, SP, D66, CDA. unknown: VVD, PVV
- Smaller "2nd Chamber" (lower house): yes: GL, VVD, PVV no: PvdA, D66, CDA unknown: SP
- Abolish "1st Chamber" (higher house): yes: GL, D66, PVV. no: PvdA, SP, CDA, VVD
- Safety > privacy:   yes: CDA no: PvdA, GL, D66, VVD unknown: PVV
- Higher (jail)sentences:  yes: CDA, VVD, PVV no: GL, D66 unknown: PvdA, SP
- Legalize growing of cannabis: yes: PvdA, SP, D66 no: GL, CDA, VVD unknown: PVV

Foreign affairs:
- Cut in defence budget: yes: PvdA, PVV, SP, D66, GL no: CDA, VVD
- Cut in foreignaid: yes: VVD, PVV no: PvdA, CDA, SP, GL, D66
- Stop with JSF project: yes: PvdA, PVV, SP, D66, GL no: CDA, VVD
- Expantion EU: yes: PvdA, D66, GL. no: VVD, PVV. unknown: CDA, SP
- Less money to the EU: yes: PvdA, VVD, PVV, SP, D66, GL unknown: CDA

Immigration and intergration policies:
- Can "black" schools remain black? yes: CDA, VVD no: PvdA, GL, SP, D66 unknown: PVV
- Shelters in the local area of Asylum seekers?: yes: PvdA, SP, CDA, VVD, PVV unknown: D66, GL
- Make it a crime to be an illegal immigrant? yes: VVD, PVV no: PvdA, GL, SP, D66, CDA
- Thougher on marriagemigration?: yes: PvdA, GL, SP, CDA, VVD, PVV. no: D66
- SPeaking Dutch a priority? yes: PvdA, GL, SP, D66, CDA, VVD, PVV no: -
- Adapt to Dutch culture? yes: PvdA, CDA, VVD, PVV no: D66 unknown: GL, SP

Climate policies:
- Nuclear energy: yes: CDA, VVD, PVV, D66 (last resort) no: PvdA, GL, SP
- EU 2020 co2 emission targets? yes: CDA, SP no: PvdA, PVV, D66, GL unknown: VVD *
- Higher emission target then the EU: yes: PvdA, SP, D66, GL no: CDA, PVV unknown: VVD
- Make the tax system "green": yes: PvdA, CDA, SP, D66, GL  no: PVV unknown: VVD
- Subsidize new renewable energy technology: yes: PvdA, VVD, SP, D66, GL. no: CDA, PVV
- Stop expantion "factory farming": yes: PvdA, CDA, PVV, SP, D66, GL  unknown: VVD
- Less terrain for nature preservation: yes: CDA, VVD no: PvdA, SP, GL, D66 unknown: PVV
* Bit misleading. GL and D66 for example have an co2 emmision plan for 2040-2050 (100% renewable energy etc.) it simply mean that they disagree with the EU treaty/policy.

Healthcare:
- Raise minimum price before you get compensated*: yes: PvdA, CDA, VVD, PVV, D66, GL no: SP
- Expand "market influence": yes: CDA, VVD, D66 no: PvdA, PVV, SP, GL
- Director is the boss in hospital, also over medical specialists: yes: PvdA, CDA, SP, D66, GL unknown: VVD, PVV
- Reduce items in the "primairy healthcare package" coverage: yes: PvdA, CDA, VVD, PVV, D66. no: SP, GL
- Reduce coverage for living retirementhomes etc.: yes: PvdA, CDA, VVD, D66, GL unknown: SP, PVV
* Below this price you'll have to pay for the bill yourselves


Source: http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1385928.ece/Verkiezingsprogrammas_uitgeplozen_alles_wat_u_weten_moet
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 17:06:36
I stand corrected, social-democrat indeed.

Very interesting list, clears my mind on D66. Used to have alot of sympathy for them but their school and integration points bother me. They want to make it a loan for me and on top of that don't even want to give me 'free' books! Bwah  ;)

And marriage immigration is cheating IMO, they should be a tad tougher on that.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 19:06:05
The studyloan is a pity, but the student compensation for their costs for going to uni/college has been raped a lot over the past 20 years or so...

As for the free schoolbooks, I payed for mine bck in the day (well my parents) so so can you. Only the poor families should be compensated. And schools/boards may be less tempted to go for the cheapest schoolbooks but chose the "best" (best price/quality) books without having to worry about this being denied due to costing too much taxes.

On marriage immigration the progressive parties (D66 and GL atleast) do demand things such as the partner being able to support the import-bridge/groom, being atleast 18 years old and the standard intergration demands such as learning the language and finding a job. Quite fair if you ask me, if I'd fall in love with a chick abroad (from outside the EU), I'd be pretty pissed if marriae migration would be banned or pretty much impossible.  Ofcourse I do find it silly that some orthodox/conservative religous folk (muslims) ish to get a conservative/orthodox partner from their home country. But that's kinda hard to stop unless we'd severely restrict any kind of "partner importation".

The list below is a bit simplistic, for a proper review you'd need to look at a (summarized) comment on why these parties are for/against and a further explination/details.
___________________________________

Here is a more clear list, made a  quick graphic:

(http://forums.filefront.com/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=7321)

(http://forums.filefront.com/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=7318)
^ The last point basically means that a Roman-Catholic school can't deny pupils to join their school if they are agnostic/atheist/protestant/.../ , although they should respect the schools principles (aslong as those are within the law ofcourse).


(http://forums.filefront.com/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=7323)
GL, D66 want "fair and effective sentences" WHich not only punish the criminal but should focus on rehabilitation in society (studying, working etc.) to lessen the chanches of criminals falling back into their old pattern. No, they don't want to "hug" brutal seria murdering rapist physco lunatics...  The PvdA says it supports higher jail setences for the most worst crimes plus ofcourse the whole rehabilitation program as with the other parties for the same reasons.

(http://forums.filefront.com/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=7319)
Progressive parties: Expantion  is alright but only if all requirements are met and human rights are respected/guaranteed.

(http://forums.filefront.com/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=7322)

(http://forums.filefront.com/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=7317)

(http://forums.filefront.com/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=7320)
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 10-06-2010, 21:06:36
If PVV is going to be part of the goverment I'm going to Canada for sure  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: panzer66 on 10-06-2010, 21:06:18
if geert wilders get to power we have war
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 21:06:27
The CDA won't join such a coalition, or atleast it would be highly unlikely. Plenty of prominent (former) CDA members made quite clear that they'd never accept such a party "that goes against nearly everything we stand for with our christian values".  Though, as I said, with a VVD+PVV+CDA coalition it might open the eyes of those voters to see that governing a country aint that issue and that there is no "magic wand" solution that will magically fix all of our problems. Thus The PVV could easily lose a lot of votes in the next parliamential elections.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 21:06:06
Nice to have known you Hawkeye, hope you enjoy Canada. Luckily I can cancel my flight to Canada as Cohen didn't won.

@Donutz, I was two/three years before the law of 'free' books and I don't know how expensive they where in your days but 500/1000 euros where normal prices to hire a pile of books. Thus when the reduction in costs came it was a great relief for my parents, sure they can pay it but look what else can be bought for that amount of money.

Sure marriage immigration should be legal if you get your Thai chicks to live in your house I'm fine with that. IF they pass 'immigration tests'. So do they speak slightly Dutch and are willing to improve it, do they know basic rules in the Netherlands, do they know something about our culture (to avoid awkward situations), etc.

Then I'm fine with that but in quite some cases people just import other people by marrying them. Very common under the muslims as you mentioned, I'm fine with those coming along but atleast let them do a test so they can atleast go shopping by themselves without language and cultural problems, etc.

And then theres the part who gets paid to marry a girl and simply import her to a Western nation, very small percentage but utterly retarded  :P

Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 10-06-2010, 23:06:58
Nice to have known you Hawkeye, hope you enjoy Canada. Luckily I can cancel my flight to Canada as Cohen didn't won.
Why, are you secretly a banker or invester who anally raped us a hundred times over, is loaded with trillions in cash and has too many damn houses around the country with ane ven more massive loan (mortgage) on them to get a huge tax profit from? :p

Quote
@Donutz, I was two/three years before the law of 'free' books and I don't know how expensive they where in your days but 500/1000 euros where normal prices to hire a pile of books. Thus when the reduction in costs came it was a great relief for my parents, sure they can pay it but look what else can be bought for that amount of money.
I am not sure, a few hundred guilders and euro's. If I'd have to guess (!) I'd say... 300+ euros? It used to be more cheap when the school rented out the books, but after two years or so they rented them externally via a well known, large student/pupil book company. Prices didn't exactly went down... though the books wer more new then the somewhat over-used books the school used to provide.  
Regardless,  it shouldn't be too difficult to compensate this via child/family support program. Simplying things might be nice, I ain't a parent but it seems like they got all sorts of programs for this and that. WOuld be easier if they all added in one big pile and then looked at your family and financial situation to calculate how much financial aid/compensation you might receive to  help you out with raising your kid in a reasonable enviroment.

Quote
Sure marriage immigration should be legal if you get your Thai chicks to live in your house I'm fine with that. IF they pass 'immigration tests'. So do they speak slightly Dutch and are willing to improve it, do they know basic rules in the Netherlands, do they know something about our culture (to avoid awkward situations), etc.

Then I'm fine with that but in quite some cases people just import other people by marrying them. Very common under the muslims as you mentioned, I'm fine with those coming along but atleast let them do a test so they can atleast go shopping by themselves without language and cultural problems, etc.

And then theres the part who gets paid to marry a girl and simply import her to a Western nation, very small percentage but utterly retarded  :P
Obviously some demands are required to make sure that both the import-partner gets a decent life and that society at large isn't really "damaged" by it such as them being doomed to rely on goverment funding (partially perhaps due to lazyness/cultural principles, but in that case you don't really derserve any support except life saving aid as the wellfare system isn't supposed to be leeched off and abuse).  But if one reasonably fits in our society, then they are welcome. Regardless of your culture, aslong as you respect our laws and culture you'd be welcome. Though, as part of our culture/laws you'd be free to express your opinion and tell us you are offended by a certain aspect of "our" culture. Cultures changes over time anyway and is quite diverse, so I don't believe in that "must protect 'the' Dutch culture" BS.

Oh and regarding the VVD, it's "bad" enough that they are (too) liberal in the economic field, but that they are a bit conservative when it comes to social issues. Such as their stance that abortion should only be incase of emergency. I'd be pleased if they'd be a bit more liberal in that area and be truely liberal. =p

Their view of banning allface covering clothing/gear is also debatable as a "liberal" viewpoint. On the plus sides it makes it easier to confront people who are "suspicously wearing a helmet, and might intend to commit a robbery" or to identify some one (more easily). On the other hand, does this mean that whenever somebody steps of his motorcycle or scooter, you'd be force by law to take your helmet off? Or if you want to walk around in some sort of costume or uniform etc. for whatever (fair) reason? Or if it's part of some religious ceremony? Etc. etc.  I'd acknowledge that I rather not see people wear full face covering helmet in shops or  having about a hundred woman wear a full body covering burqa. In the case of the later I'd prefer if they'd dress less orthodox, on the other hand, it is their choice (I'd hope) and banning these cloths from public might bind these women to their house...

So as with many other things, getting proper legislation that achieves a goal that many people probably could agree on, is... quite tricky. We should be careful not to introduce too much legislation, as this makes things rather complex, reduses liberties etc.  I'd wish we'd could shred the whole lawbook an simply change it to "use common sense, be a good person and be respectful and tolerant". And then deal with any obvious criminals, trolls and such as they obviously are doing something that damages our society. *utopian dream*
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Fuchs on 10-06-2010, 23:06:14
No, but that guy creeps me out somehow  :P

One example on 'cultural education'; Don't know if you have seen Gran Torino but ol' Eastwood shows some goodwill to pat a kid on the head which is a big sin in the Hmong culture and only worsens the relationship between those people, if we learn them some basic do's and don'ts you wont get such situations. That was my point with 'cultural stuff'  :P

Yup, Studieboekencentrale are rip offs. I asked my parents, costs for me in my first and second year it was around 500 euros. After the government compensation it was sort of 50/50; 300 euros.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 12-06-2010, 20:06:56
100% of the ballots have been counted, the last results (from voters abroad) were made public lasy Friday. This is the result:

Voter turnout: 75,3% (Below the avarage of 80+%. Ex: previous-2006- elections 80,4%).
Number of votes casted: 9.435.667, of which 0,3% was blanc or invalid.

VVD - _____________20,5%____1.926.551 votes, 31 seats
PvdA - ____________19,6%____1.847.776 votes, 30 seats
PVV - ____________ 15,5%____1.453.944 votes, 24 seats
CDA - _____________13,6%____1.281.137 votes, 21 seats
SP - ______________ 9,8%______924.977 votes, 15 seats
D66 - ______________6,9%______653.265 votes, 10 seats
GroenLinks - _______ 6,7% ______627.912 votes, 10 seats
ChristenUnie - ______ 3,3%______305.628 votes, 5 seats
SGP - ______ _______1,7%______163.512 votes, 2 seats
Partij voor de Dieren - 1,3%______122.257 votes, 2 seats
Trots op Nederland - 0,6%_______52.735 votes, 0 seats

Partij voor Mens en Spirit - __ 0,3%___26.224 votes, 0 seats
Piratenpartij - _____________0,%___10.570 votes, 0 seats
Lijst 17 - ________________0,1%___7.440 votes, 0 seats
Partij Een - _______________0,0%____2.087 votes, 0 seats
HeelNL - ________________ 0,0%____1.343 votes, 0 seats
Lijst Lacle, _______________0,0%_____949 votes, 0 seats

The results could still change, as the official and final amount of seeats is yet to be calculated. Due to the way votes are counted there are some "empty seats" which then are divided along the parties.

How the seats are divided:
The total amount of valid votes (say it's 9.100.000) is divided by the number of seats (150), which is roughly 60.666. This number is the "kiesdeler".

The amount of votes for a single list (party) is now divided by the kiesdeler. The result, rounded down, is the amount of seats for that party. For example for the VVD this would be(1926551 / 60666) = 31.75 seats. Rounded down, 31 seats.

As you can may have noticed, this means a number of seats is not assigned yet. There will be a handfull of unassigned seats, called "rest zetels" (leftover seats). SOme further calculations will decide on which party gets the seat, roughly speaking, the party with the highest decimal count gets the seat. Generally larger parties have a slight advantage, so some parties "combine" their lists. Such as the CU with the SGP and Pvda with GroenLinks, to increase their chanches of getting a "restzetel".

So in theory the PvdA could get one extra seat and thus create a tie with the VVD. The official results will be announced next Tuesday.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 13-06-2010, 00:06:45
Ok Dutchies, I'm gonna hijack this threat.

Tomorrow we'll have Belgian federal elections. The Dutch might have needed to vote for 4 elections past 8 years, the Belgian government has fallen 4 times last 3 years, and Yves Leterme (CDnV) has resigned to the King 5 times.

I will try to explain how Belgian elections work, since they are not as straight forward as that of most other nations.

In Belgium we have four main governments (and a bunch of small crap to) consisting out of :
*Flemish parliament (authority restricted to Flanders)
*Walloon parliament (" Wallonia )
*Brussels parliament (For Brussels and closeby towns)
*Federal  parliament (our national government)

each one has it's own ministers, and leaders : minister presidents for the communities (3) and the prime minister as national representative. Not all governments have the same authorities, although the communities have allot of posts that are available nation wide to.

for instance, the federal government is the only government which has a minister of justice. But each government has for instance a minister of finance AND a secretary for fraud(6 com, 2fed). I think each have about 10 ppl working with them, so that's about 80 for the nation.

And ofcource a lot of flaming for who can do what.   

This goes on for every post of the government but some thing go only for the community (for instance education) others go only for federal (social security, pensions, defence, homeland sec,...), others are shared (housing, environment,mobility, agriculture,...     

So in Belgium, many ministers have the same sort of authority ( and each community has it's own minister for the subject) , so we get 4 ministers on the same subject in our nation although only one nation wide.


Now the federal government consists out of  parts : chamber and senate. Only the chambers is important, senate always follows(There are rumours some politicians want to abolish the senate)

The federal government ... is a big mess. In Belgium, your only allowed to vote on parties of your community to go federal, except BHV, which can vote both (I'll try to explain that mess l8)

So flemish are only allowed to vote flemish, walloons only on walloons. personaly, I believe I should have the right to vote for a walloon party, if I believe it is the better one. Right now I don't.

And this creates No 1 of Belgiums problems: parties are only focused of what they can do for their community, and not for the NATION !

this is the current government

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/John1987/PAE.jpg)


Nice and colourful isn't it ? In Belgium we need at least 5 parties each government. This usually means Flemish + Walloon counterpart

We have

CDnV (F Christian demo) 
CDH ( W "")
open VLD (F Liberals)
MR (W "")
SP.A(F socialist)
PS ( W "")
GROEN ! (F Eco-nazi's)
Ecolo (W"")

VB( Vlaams belang, far right wing)
NVA(Niewe Vlaamse aliantie , right wing with seperatistic ambitions)
FDF(walloon right wing anti Flanders party, in coalition with MR)

Current polls suggest that NVA will get from 5(2006) to 25%, CDnV will get hits VLD a slight slap as well.

The current government consists of CdnV, VLD, MR,FDF, CDH and PS.

They have failed beyond believe. They have done 3 years utterly nothing. Leterme has resigned 5 times( CDnV campaign moto was "never give up" , suits them right!)

Migration :

total mess. Indecisive to make either open or closed border policy, they've utterly chosen national amnesty, which means that for 3 months, ppl without papers could automaticly become Belgian citizens if they came and registered.

People are no longer send back either: the government can only ask if they please get back, but can no longer force.

As a result migration centres are far over capacity. Immigrants are currently sheltered in hotels. The migration directors and human activists have sued the state for this and got right: Belgium now has to pay 500 euro per capita per day to immigrants (I had to read this in the paper to believe it ! but if you come from Afghanistan with your wife and 4 children, you'll get about 100 000€ for being in Belgium while you are w8ing the next four years to get regulated !)

Justice : total mess. We need to rent cells in Holland. Most convicted don't even get in jail, since there is no room. There is a waiting list in order to get "allowed" into jail. most just get House arrest, and thus get away cheap. they won't put you in jail if you have to serve less then 2 years.

Pensions: total empty. is being done by this guy : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Dw9GL9Pdc
                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6icNu70hx9ofeature=related

And then the argument used that they aleast did something last 3 years : "but we did save the banks!"

You mean by selling them cheap to the Dutch and Giving the Belgian part to the Frensh instead of nationalising ? no thanks !

Previous government was bad (they did allot of selling and lendleasing back at ridicules renting prices, the state no longer owns any building aside from the parliament itself ), this one was a disaster

now about BHV:simple version : Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde are a single voting district. However, by language law of 1958 (I think) it states that Halle and Vilvoorde are Flemish. Now these ones have had allot of migration of walloons from Brussels to there, who, as a result, vote for walloons. Now, not a big deal you think ? You're right, the population doesn't care a fuck, but politics do! each vote = 3€(per annum I belive) , and these communities are densely populated. Walloons will vote for wallon parties , so parties are missing lots of funds. They care because Flemish in Wallonia can only vote Walloon, but now Walloons (who mainly migrate to that region) can vote Walloon in flanders, so Flemish parties are missing lots of €€€. And ofcource Walloons Object!



Sorry for the chaotic post.
I tried to reflect Belgian politics in a nutshell, but it is rather complicated to do this online since it's hard to explain how we have a national government, without actually having one.

If you would want to learn more , we should go to the bar and I can give you a 4 hour lecture about it how it all works ;)

I did not go in too deep because that would lead to to mush walls of text

We'll have the results tomorrow !   
 
   
   
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 13-06-2010, 00:06:15
And we were thinking our goverments under Balkenende I, II, III and IV messed up. =p
The Belgium voting system sounds like it could need an overhaul, mostly some unity (though there are more Flamish people then Wallonians, not? SO I guess that's out of the question...). It would make things simple though: One federal goverment and beneath it only some officials/councils for the states/provinces and the municpals on the lowest level. Ie: National, Regional, local.

Then allow anyone to vote on any party. So if you happen to like the Wallonian liberals better then the Flamish ones... vote on the Wallonian one.  Better yet, in time they shouldn't really represent a region (wallonia or flanders) but simply be a party that has members in it's rank of all backgrounds. And aslogn as the most promintent members speak proper French and Dutch... there shouldn't be an outcry over a person only speaking Dutch/French.
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 13-06-2010, 01:06:53
And we were thinking our goverments under Balkenende I, II, III and IV messed up. =p
The Belgium voting system sounds like it could need an overhaul, mostly some unity (though there are more Flamish people then Wallonians, not? SO I guess that's out of the question...). It would make things simple though: One federal goverment and beneath it only some officials/councils for the states/provinces and the municpals on the lowest level. Ie: National, Regional, local.

Then allow anyone to vote on any party. So if you happen to like the Wallonian liberals better then the Flamish ones... vote on the Wallonian one.  Better yet, in time they shouldn't really represent a region (wallonia or flanders) but simply be a party that has members in it's rank of all backgrounds. And aslogn as the most promintent members speak proper French and Dutch... there shouldn't be an outcry over a person only speaking Dutch/French.

Well, I believe it used to be like that, where all parties where on one list rather then separated lists for the communities (hence there used to be NO communities, only a Unitarian Belgiuù)

But in the '70 and '80 they found it necessary to  get state reforms : If a minister was Walloon he was accused of doing only stuff for Wallonia, and visa versa. They thought the "Unitarian state was an obsolete idea", and now we get this mess.

Why do Belgians need 4(!) parliaments and governments over their heads ? I don't know, one sounds just fine for me. Now we have a solution that pleases nobody. Belgium as a state holds on to a tiny string. On one hand it doesn't please the separatists, since the nation is not split up, yet the state has been undone from most of it's foce and power .

They should abolish all that communitarian crap, one government is more then enough. Bart De Wever(NVA) even suggested to abolish the Brussels' community parliament, and I'm going to support him for that. I know he does it only for his own purpose to try and clear the road for an independent Flanders, nevertheless the nation is better off with one parliament less, and let Brussels be governed by the federal state. He had some good arguments to : Why does Brussels need a minister of AGRICULTURE for a bloody city ? It's like having a minister for farming at time square.     
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 13-06-2010, 13:06:00
Yeah, to me it sounds like an overly complicated, oversized bureaucratic machine.. and thus a waste of tax income better spent elsewhere (such as on your infrastructure, haha).
Title: Re: Dutch parliamentary elections comming up
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 13-06-2010, 14:06:18
Yeah, to me it sounds like an overly complicated, oversized bureaucratic machine.. and thus a waste of tax income better spent elsewhere (such as on your infrastructure, haha).

Rename the thread to Belgian/Dutch parliamentary elections comming up ?  8)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 13-06-2010, 18:06:19
I did not had to vote today


FHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA


LOVE you poland! <3
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 13-06-2010, 18:06:36
You still have to vote at a local ambacy, or did you ask your mom to do it for you :p

Every one has to vote in Belgium, an exuse like "i was in a foreign country" and " i had to work" are not valid. There are plenty of alternatives to let someone else vote for you.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 13-06-2010, 18:06:09
I was not obliged to vote neither (students of uni can receive a  pardon), but I did my duty anyway.

Looks like huge profits for N VA


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/John1987/Naamloos-1.jpg)

grey is previous. No previous for NVA due to being in cartel with CDnV but generally it would be near 5 percent.

This is of antwerp , the most important province of Flanders
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 13-06-2010, 19:06:30
You still have to vote at a local ambacy, or did you ask your mom to do it for you :p

Every one has to vote in Belgium, an exuse like "i was in a foreign country" and " i had to work" are not valid. There are plenty of alternatives to let someone else vote for you.
i had to bring a copy of my flight and it was A-Okay  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Lightning on 13-06-2010, 20:06:42
So, when the NVA breaks Belgium in 2, will you Flemish join The Netherlands?  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 13-06-2010, 20:06:44
I would not mind, but i don't think it will happen :p
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 13-06-2010, 21:06:26
he wont be able to split belgium, sorry to burst everyones bubble.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 13-06-2010, 22:06:48
he wont be able to split belgium, sorry to burst everyones bubble.
Dutch tanks will!! Annex!!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 13-06-2010, 22:06:42
So, when the NVA breaks Belgium in 2, will you Flemish join The Netherlands?  ;D

Yes, let the lost brother finally come home :D

But as stated, the nation will not split up even though it probably is his wet dream.

Bart De Wever is not a moron, I believe he will be capable to move things around here as long as some parties are willing to support him, and to cover his back.

We'll see how it turns out
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 13-06-2010, 22:06:47
he wont be able to split belgium, sorry to burst everyones bubble.
Dutch tanks will!! Annex!!

Haha, dream on, our roads are worse then the russian mudplains and snowfields. They will never get true :D

It will be interesting to see what coalitions will be formed. And lets hope he can get things moving again, the last three years where a disaster on all fronts.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 13-06-2010, 22:06:46
this is the current landscape

yellow = NVA
Orange = CDnV
blue = VLD
red  = SP A
Grey = all other junk

(http://www.deredactie.be/polopoly_fs/1.800626!image/1923818246.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape470/1923818246.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: NTH on 14-06-2010, 00:06:34
So, when the NVA breaks Belgium in 2, will you Flemish join The Netherlands?  ;D


Bart De Wever is not a moron, I believe he will be capable to move things around here as long as some parties are willing to support him, and to cover his back.

We'll see how it turns out

Didn't he knew nine different kinds of shit ? That's fucking amazing guys  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 14-06-2010, 00:06:42
I did not had to vote today
You don't like to excersize your duty/right to vote?

As for Flanders becoming (more) sovereign and possible independant: it would become a bit small, but it might work. Or we could just go and unite the low lands... while at it, we ditch the monarchies, merge some provinces (a single Branbant and Limburg for starters) and so on.  

Oh and you Belgians have some funny party names.. why not rename Open VLD to VLD (again), Sp.A to SP/SPV/VSP etc.  Basically rename everything to make sense:

Vlaamse....
... ChristenDemocraten
...Liberalen
...Liberaal Democraten
... Socialisten
(...)

...Vlaanderen
ChristenDemocraten..
Liberalen...
Liberaal Democraten...
Socialisten...
(...)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 14-06-2010, 08:06:38
Hes in Poland, Donutz, give him a break  :P
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 14-06-2010, 10:06:58
He makes it sound like he doesn't like to vote at all...
Though being required to vote by law is a bit silly, everyone "should" would but they should not be "forced" to vote. If people can't be arsed to go voting and you make them, I doubt they will put any effort at all in making a decision on who to vote for. Hell, some people barely inform themselves as it is, basically making their decision on what's said on the television (debate programs etc.)...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 14-06-2010, 10:06:08
He makes it sound like he doesn't like to vote at all...
Though being required to vote by law is a bit silly, everyone "should" would but they should not be "forced" to vote. If people can't be arsed to go voting and you make them, I doubt they will put any effort at all in making a decision on who to vote for. Hell, some people barely inform themselves as it is, basically making their decision on what's said on the television (debate programs etc.)...
if their is a voting i do not mind

This trip was planned 1 year ago. And over my godforsaken BODY that i am gonna cancell my trip to vote because our goverment and politics once again FAILED to do their job
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 14-06-2010, 10:06:22


This trip was planned 1 year ago. And over my godforsaken BODY that i am gonna cancell my trip to vote because our goverment and politics once again FAILED to do their job

You only had to do a short trip to your local town hall before you left, and gave your vote so someone else, it's not that hard to do at all.

He makes it sound like he doesn't like to vote at all...
Though being required to vote by law is a bit silly, everyone "should" would but they should not be "forced" to vote. If people can't be arsed to go voting and you make them, I doubt they will put any effort at all in making a decision on who to vote for. Hell, some people barely inform themselves as it is, basically making their decision on what's said on the television (debate programs etc.)...

Well if you don't want to vote just hand in a blank paper. An invalid vote is not counted. The only effect is has is that there will be less funding, as political parties get payed for every vote they get (or something like that). One of the reasons the wallon politicians don't want BHV split, they lose funding.
Not voting will get you a 250 euro fine, but if you don't pay absolutely nothing will happen.

I am impressed with PVDA, every election they grow like 30%. Belgium now had 50 000 communists.

Also respect, a local party here has 5500 votes, not bad considering only like 40 000 people know who the f Walter goveart is.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 14-06-2010, 10:06:01


This trip was planned 1 year ago. And over my godforsaken BODY that i am gonna cancell my trip to vote because our goverment and politics once again FAILED to do their job

You only had to do a short trip to your local town hall before you left, and gave your vote so someone else, it's not that hard to do at all.


i did that
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 14-06-2010, 10:06:09


This trip was planned 1 year ago. And over my godforsaken BODY that i am gonna cancell my trip to vote because our goverment and politics once again FAILED to do their job

You only had to do a short trip to your local town hall before you left, and gave your vote so someone else, it's not that hard to do at all.


i did that

Good boy :)

You did not cancel your trip to Poland, but i had to Cancel my trip to Eben Emeal :( The next day they are open in Juli 3 but i don't think i can make that :s
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 14-06-2010, 10:06:02


This trip was planned 1 year ago. And over my godforsaken BODY that i am gonna cancell my trip to vote because our goverment and politics once again FAILED to do their job

You only had to do a short trip to your local town hall before you left, and gave your vote so someone else, it's not that hard to do at all.


i did that

Good boy :)

You did not cancel your trip to Poland, but i had to Cancel my trip to Eben Emeal :( The next day they are open in Juli 3 but i don't think i can make that :s
Neither can i, otherwise we could go together and drink een bakske bier achteraf!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 14-06-2010, 15:06:46
if their is a voting i do not mind

This trip was planned 1 year ago. And over my godforsaken BODY that i am gonna cancell my trip to vote because our goverment and politics once again FAILED to do their job
Good, yeah you shouldn't need to cancel a trip over an election. Though that should simply be a matter of granting your vote to someone else so they can vote in your name.  But you made it sound like you weren't all to happy about having to vote at all (being too lazy or not giving a damn about politics at all while perhaps conviently using the liberty to bitch and moan about the way the country is heading).   :P

Well if you don't want to vote just hand in a blank paper. An invalid vote is not counted.
Yes,  and I'd say that people who would resort to making a totally uninformed vote shouldn't vote at all (or vote blanc/invalid). Though I'd urge people to atleast try to make a reasonably informed decision when they go to to excersize their right/duty to vote.

 
Quote
The only effect is has is that there will be less funding, as political parties get payed for every vote they get (or something like that). One of the reasons the wallon politicians don't want BHV split, they lose funding.
Not voting will get you a 250 euro fine, but if you don't pay absolutely nothing will happen.
Heh
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 17-06-2010, 17:06:48
Update: Informateur Uri Rosenthal (VVD) has announced that coalition talks about a VVD+PVVV+CDA cabinet has been discontinued. The VVD and PVV has a few meetings, they asked the CDA to join in the talks. But the CDA declined this, saying it would first like to see if VVD and PVV could agree on working together. The VVD and PVV said that they'd rather have talks with all three parties simultaniously rather then first negotationing between the two and then having to negotiate again with the CDA. The CDA also had announced that it even if they'd come to an agreement, that they'd go back to their memberbase first and put it up to a vote to see if this coalition was acceptable for them.

So now infomateur Rosenthal will have to look into an other coalition, most likely either a Paars (purple) cabinet of VVD, Pvda, D66 and GroenLinks, or a Nationaal Kabinet (National Cabinet) of VVD, CDA and PvdA.

Not sure wether to be happy or disappointed. Being a lefty, a right wing cabinet would be much worse then a centrist (right or left) cabinet. On the other hand, if they'd  be able to form a right wing cabinet people might fee the true effects of such a goverment: that it won't really make things better (but if anything, worse), that it could very well damage trade relations and that various silly laws either might not work due to violating the constitution or being simply impractical or affecting many more then those it was intended for. For example the "No facial coverage" law to ban the... hmm about a 100 or so nikaab/burquas we have here, but which would also ban people from (walking) around with skimask on, closed motorcycle helmet, full body costumes etc.   ::)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 17-06-2010, 18:06:32
Update: Informateur Uri Rosenthal (VVD) has announced that coalition talks about a VVD+PVVV+CDA cabinet has been discontinued.


Partij Voor Veel Vuvuzela's?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 17-06-2010, 19:06:42
Update: Informateur Uri Rosenthal (VVD) has announced that coalition talks about a VVD+PVVV+CDA cabinet has been discontinued.


Partij Voor Veel Vuvuzela's?

Partij voor de pletterpet
Partij voor het amperbroekie (Gotta love south african)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 19-06-2010, 16:06:43
Forming a rightist coalition seems out of the question now CDA has refused to enter negotiations for a coalition of VVD, PVV and CDA.

So the VVD (centrist right) now seems bound to the PvdA (centrist left). Either forming a  Paars (purple) progressive coalition with pro-reform parties such as D66 and GroenLinks. In such a coalition centre left parties (PvdA, D66, GL) would dominate the centrist right VVD though. So VVD leader Rutte has already said that he isn't looking forward to such a coalition. The leaders of the other three parties in this coalition said that they'd favour this option.

Rutte rather has a coalition with the CDA, so that the focus (dominance) would remain centre-right rather then centre-left. However, the PvdA (Cohen) has said that they are not very happy with such a coalition.

I wouldn't be suprised if the VVD let's the talks for a paarse/purple centre-left cabinet fail and then invites the CDA and PvdA to talk about a centre right coalition. The PvdA may or may not agree on that this. If these talks fail, it's either back to re-examine a centre-left paarse cabinet or a right wing cabinet with the PVV. Or failing all that, see if the PvdA can form a coalition instead with the CDA for example and all of the centre left and leftish parties.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 24-06-2010, 16:06:37
As expected, the talks with VVD (liberals, 31 seats), PvdA (Labour, 30 seats), D66 (Soc-Liberals, 10 seats), and GroenLinks (Greens, 10 seats) failed.  Rutte (VVD) pulled th plug on this, because in his eyes his right wing party would be dominated by these three "left wing" parties. That's ofcourse a simplication, as D66 and to some extend, GroenLinks are quite progressive and pro-reform including economic topics were they favour various liberalisations/rule relaxing.  
So a Paars (purple) cabinet with the above mentioned parties is out of the question for now...

Rutte has called for a meeting between VVD, CDA (ChristianDemocrats, 21 seats) and PvdA. Cohen (PvdA) has said he ain't keen on such a coalition. Though the three of them are going to engage in talks to form this "national" or "orange" cabinet.  

Thus Rutte has closed the door to a centre-left cabinet, and Cohen the door to a centre-right cabinet.

Meanwhile, there is mentioning of inviting D66 and GroenLinks in these talks to form a "rainbow coalition" of the "rightwinged" VVD and CDA (31+21= 52 seats) and "leftwinged" PvdA, GroenLinks and D66 (30+10+10= 50 seats).  On paper this should balance out to a centrist coalition. It would be rather large though, much larger then the 76+ minimum that is needed to gain a majority in the Tweede Kamer (Second Chamber, Lower house).

Wilders has asked to look at talks between his party (PVV, 24 seats) and CDA again.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-06-2010, 16:06:58
Don't know if to 'lol' or 'facepalm' at the situation right now.

Well I'm with Rutte on that matter, then it's him vs the others in his own cabinet, wont work  :P

But yeah the coalitions are getting ridiculous now, why not group up all parties, then they can do whatever they want because there is no opposition.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 24-06-2010, 17:06:57
Don't know if to 'lol' or 'facepalm' at the situation right now.

Well I'm with Rutte on that matter, then it's him vs the others in his own cabinet, wont work  :P
I think he's exaggerating though. It's his centre-right VVD (31 seats) vs the centre elft PvdA (30 seats). This would mean you'd get a centrist compromise. D66 is pretty centrist, a bit leftish in some areas, a bit rightish in others... but we could cruedly label this as centrist. D66 should be able to work along both PvdA and VVV. The three of these could thus in theory make an other centrist coalition known as paars (purple).  In the previous Paars coalition PvdA was the largest and by more then the extremely small 1 seat margin the VVD finds itself in now, explaining a small bias/focus to the left. This time,  due to such a small difference you'd expect less of a bias/focus to the right.

Though this setup would not give them enough seats for a majority coalition. The closest partner then then comes in sight are either GroenLinks (centre left) and CDA (centre right).

Ofcourse, if the D66 would opt to strongly favour PvdA over VVD for some reason it could mean a centre left dominance over de VVD.  If D66 would decide to be VVD's bitch, then the PvdA would be dominated by a centre right focus.

But for an outright left dominance as Rutte suggested you'd need to have a setup of PVV plus PvdA, SP (Socialist Party) and GroenLinks. Then yes, the VVD would be dominated.

Quote
But yeah the coalitions are getting ridiculous now, why not group up all parties, then they can do whatever they want because there is no opposition.
And it would be rather unstable. Just drop the H-word in there and they'd collapse. With the VVD and CDA stubbornly (IMHO and in the opinion of many economics) refusing to alter the slightest thing (≠ scrapping it entirely!!)...  just give in already, but with the demand of more cuts then say the PvdA favours. 

Yes, I'm still hoping for a new paars (centrist) cabinet . THough I'd rather see a centre-left, progressive cabinet with a fair balance on cuts (need to get rid of our national debt etc.) and social justice. Or a right wing cabinet with Geert and have them fail miserably, either because the coalition buckles or the plans are proven to be so unrealistic or unlawful that they can't be put into action...  :P
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-06-2010, 17:06:49
Yeah give Geert a chance, he might fuck up, he might not. But as a person neutral on the PVV (not a hat0r like so many) I think he shouldn't, he should be in the opposition and his buddies should learn politics a bit more as it's all new inexperienced people.

All combinations will fail IMO. Rather vote again lol.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 26-06-2010, 17:06:10
Short update: The VVD informateur (informer) Uri Rosenthal, Senator in the High House (Eerst Kamer, First Chamber) has reported his conclusions about the formation process to Queen Beatrix.   He had adviced to appoint two informers, one of the VVD and one of the PvdA as he concluded that any future coalition will almost certainly need to consist of atleast these two parties.

Queen beatrix has decided differently though despite of this advice (which was supported by the VVD, PvdA and CDA. Only D66 said it prefered a single informer. Beatrix announced she appointed Tjeenk Willink as the new informer. The 68 year old Willink is a member of the PvdA, and has been a senator -and later chairman -of the Higher House. Since 1997 he has been Vice-president of the "Raad van State" (Council of State, this is an advisory body to the government which consists of members of the royal family and Crown appointed members generally having political, commercial, diplomatic, or military experience.).  He's widely viewed as being "above party views" . He also led the coalition talks in 1994 which let to the formation of the Paarse (purple) cabinet. 

His task(s) will be limited however, he isn't expected to lead additional negotiations but instead pave the way for such negotiations. When the talks about a coalition formation reach a more serious level an (other) informer(s) will take over.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 26-06-2010, 19:06:40
It is starting to remind me of the Belgian elections of 2007 :P

I hope for you guys that it won't go the same way though  :-\
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Lightning on 28-06-2010, 14:06:07
Queen beatrix has decided differently though despite of this advice (which was supported by the VVD, PvdA and CDA.
I find it quite disturbing that this can actually happen...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 28-06-2010, 15:06:36
In theory she could chose to be a real bitch when it comes to establishing a new goverment or giving permission for the old goverment to step down... 
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 28-06-2010, 19:06:13
Queen beatrix has decided differently though despite of this advice (which was supported by the VVD, PvdA and CDA.
I find it quite disturbing that this can actually happen...

Republic anyone? ;D Just like in the old days (when the rest of Europe never heard of republics)!

Nah I'm fine with them being there but no political powers please, and stop wasting my tax money on fancy foreign trips...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 22-09-2010, 18:09:24
aren't are nations forming nice coalitions gentlemen  ?  :P

Maybe Belgium and The Netherlands should swap parties with one another, then we might actually form a government  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 22-09-2010, 18:09:03
Year 3 of belgium "not having a goverment aka able to form one  ;D ;D"
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Moose on 22-09-2010, 18:09:28
I've been spending a lot of my time with 3 Flemish girls here and they all don't care about no government. I mean they care, but they aren't too worried about it, they're just afraid brussels will be split with a corridor
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 22-09-2010, 19:09:20
Roughly 100 days without government now, I think they are pretty close now over here.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 23-09-2010, 10:09:41
I hope they ain't...  ::)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: DLFReporter on 23-09-2010, 11:09:20
..., they're just afraid brussels will be split with a corridor

Wonderful! They can ask us then how it's done. We have over 40 years of grade A experience in constructing corridors and walls that divide capitals. ^^
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 23-09-2010, 11:09:33
I hope they ain't...  ::)
You still here? I remember you saying you would emigrate if Cohen did not won? But thats easy to say ofcourse.

Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-09-2010, 11:09:30
Many people OUTSIDE Belgium say this will escalate into a civil war. The walloons take advantage of this to public pathethic cartoons like this

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1967/image001ofg.jpg

To make us look like "the bad guys" wich we arent. We are all doing it wrong..

And we will never have a civil war here, because we are PUSSIES
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: DLFReporter on 23-09-2010, 11:09:46
And we will never have a civil war here, because we are PUSSIES

Actually no. Not because you are pussies, but because you are all well fed and educated central Europeans. Plus do some of you really want to join the Dutch? Or worse yet... us? ^^
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-09-2010, 12:09:29
And we will never have a civil war here, because we are PUSSIES

Actually no. Not because you are pussies, but because you are all well fed and educated central Europeans. Plus do some of you really want to join the Dutch? Or worse yet... us? ^^
Their are some yes. 40% or so . Honestly i wouldnt mind. The dutch goverment is retarded, but not as retarded as ours

us? Ah yes your french right?Well honestly i hope that SHOULD belgium split into 2, that walloons join the french.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: DLFReporter on 23-09-2010, 12:09:59
Monsieur? Sacrebleu! Je suis avec les Allemands!
 




 ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 23-09-2010, 12:09:43

Actually no. Not because you are pussies, but because you are all well fed and educated central Western Europeans.
fixed

Quote
Plus do some of you really want to join the Dutch?

minority of the population. Most just don't care.

Quote
Or worse yet... us? ^^

HELL NO  :P

Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 23-09-2010, 12:09:34
As far as we are concerned, you guys are belong to the Dutch.  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Thorondor123 on 23-09-2010, 13:09:12
This is still going on? How fascinating.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 23-09-2010, 13:09:27
Yup, still no government, and it does not look like we will get one soon. On the upside, it are the walloon people that screwed up now, so they can't blame us this time (although i am sure theire propaganda will find a way)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 23-09-2010, 15:09:10
politicians at both sides are at fault, neither has the good of the country in mind when doing this.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-09-2010, 15:09:46
Aye, only their politcal agenda and paychecks count

If only we could freeze their pays...trust me, suddently whole belgium has a goverment, BHV is solved and all other problems in the country
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 23-09-2010, 15:09:57
Send them here... send them here!!

They would be very thankful to have such tolerating government in the peaceland of Europe then.  :D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 23-09-2010, 16:09:19
i say we get rid of all the gouvenrments and give the king full power.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Moose on 23-09-2010, 16:09:29
These flemish girls I know are good looking.... can they be in charge?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: DLFReporter on 23-09-2010, 16:09:19
These flemish girls I know are good looking.... can they be in charge?

Moose you don't have to bring them up at every opportunity we already know that you are longing to show them off. ;)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 23-09-2010, 16:09:44
you are welcome to live here Moose, but i doubt you could deal with us anti americans.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-09-2010, 16:09:00
These flemish girls I know are good looking.... can they be in charge?
Deal!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Moose on 24-09-2010, 01:09:12
you are welcome to live here Moose, but i doubt you could deal with us anti americans.

...? I hate America.... Why do you think I'm harping on about belgian girls? I spoke more German and French tonight than I did english. I love being in the Uk with all these foreigners.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-09-2010, 11:09:04
You that good in German and French? Or did you just did not speak for the whole night?  :P
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 24-09-2010, 11:09:25
I hope they ain't...  ::)
You still here? I remember you saying you would emigrate if Cohen did not won? But thats easy to say ofcourse.

I was hoping to see a coalition between VVD and PVDA, now I decided to lead the underground, ones the PVV comes to power. ***Dark clouds are gathering above Europe once more***
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 30-09-2010, 17:09:36
....and the Netherlands got a government. I must say I'm very pleased with the results, the PVV wishes that came in are all positive in my opinion, we now even get an animal police against animal abuse etc. And the Netherlands will now follow France in a burqa-ban, that will lead to some heated discussions.

It's all mostly positive though, must have been roughly 110 days before we got this government.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 30-09-2010, 18:09:21
What a bunch of fuck tards they are.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 30-09-2010, 19:09:18
 ???

That it took so long or the new government?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 30-09-2010, 19:09:56
The Dutch beat the Belgians once again ... :-\
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 30-09-2010, 21:09:16
The Dutch beat the Belgians once again ... :-\

You're always have your victory on the independence war  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 30-09-2010, 21:09:48
well, our country is not yet run by a Hitler type
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 30-09-2010, 21:09:21
well, our country is not yet run by a Hitler type

They are all to fat for that, they are more like goering types :p
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 30-09-2010, 22:09:49
Hitler type?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Dnarag1M on 30-09-2010, 22:09:50
Hitler type?

Yeah you know, small posture, black fatty hair and a specific type of mustachio ?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 30-09-2010, 22:09:31
We got that in our government?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: NTH on 01-10-2010, 14:10:24
The only good thing that can come out of this goverment is the raising the speed limit. So in the future we can drive 130 km/per hour, which effectively means I will drive 144 km/per hour.

The rest is of the Goverment agreement reads like a left manifest. Animal Police, didn't do anything about labour flexibility (ontslag recht and WW), AOW at 66, yadadada all except the harsh immmigrant policy off course.

I'd say well done Wilders had got everyting he wanted ::)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 01-10-2010, 17:10:30
So, now the left wing is also responsible for a government charter we didn't even write? Man, we really are good for nothing. Maybe you should deport us, we're all treehuggers and on welfare anyway.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 01-10-2010, 17:10:38
A week ago my burgerschap (citizenship/social shit etc.) teacher 'explained' us politics. According to him the far right was fascist and the only party who fell under this was the PVV. Big bullshit; compare PVV's program to that of the SP and see how many similarities there are..

Later this same teacher even told us he had voted SP which I found very disturbing. Not the fact he voted for them but the fact he told his political ideology to his class. Well it atleast explained his left-biased speeching..
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 01-10-2010, 17:10:58
We got that in our government?
It was a stupid refernce to geert wilders  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 01-10-2010, 17:10:17
Thats exactly why I asked, I would never vote for him but I do wish that people would actually look into him and understand his party's program.

It's so easy to Godwin him but it only makes people look stupid..
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 01-10-2010, 19:10:56
Ha! And thats exactly what i did before i came up with :

Quote
What a bunch of fuck tards they are.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 01-10-2010, 20:10:22
So does the PVV compare to the NSDAP then? Except for the fact they are both fucktards. Actually all politicians are fucktards, especially PVDA and CDA at the moment.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: NTH on 01-10-2010, 20:10:14
So, now the left wing is also responsible for a government charter we didn't even write? Man, we really are good for nothing. Maybe you should deport us, we're all treehuggers and on welfare anyway.

You know Gezoes, besides the whole Anti-Islam thing, Geert Wilders and the PVV are more left then an inbred Bolshevik.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 01-10-2010, 20:10:17
So does the PVV compare to the NSDAP then? Except for the fact they are both fucktards. Actually all politicians are fucktards, especially PVDA and CDA at the moment.

Ive yet to compare them with the NSDAP :).
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 04-10-2010, 17:10:30
So, now the left wing is also responsible for a government charter we didn't even write? Man, we really are good for nothing. Maybe you should deport us, we're all treehuggers and on welfare anyway.

You know Gezoes, besides the whole Anti-Islam thing, Geert Wilders and the PVV are more left then an inbred Bolshevik.

Your point being? Leftists have rightwing points and vice versa, although nobody cares. It would damage our precious hokjesgeest. I consider 1,5 milion people followers of a demagogue. I don't want to, because I can imagine very well why people flocked to Geert, but alas, most of them are too stupid and blindfolded to see the implications. But as long as anyone with a 'leftist' view (I have right wing views as well) is supposedly on welfare, I will call all rightwing voters sheep when dealing with VVD-voters and possibly even, for the PVV-voters: traitors to the constitution.

Sounds harsh? Tough luck 8)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 04-10-2010, 17:10:47
It doesn't sound harsh, it's only name calling. But because he jumped of a bridge, your doing it too. Doing exactly the same wont fix it  :P
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 05-10-2010, 00:10:29
Geert Wilders trial started today. Id rather look at Roland MC donald making balloon animals.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 05-10-2010, 11:10:24
Senseless thing anyways, will only get him more attention.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 05-10-2010, 11:10:38
Geert wilders is a troll
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 05-10-2010, 11:10:28
So are you  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 05-10-2010, 11:10:46
So are you  ;D
NOW you are trolling!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 05-10-2010, 11:10:34
Thats how easy it is.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 05-10-2010, 16:10:31
It doesn't sound harsh, it's only name calling. But because he jumped of a bridge, your doing it too. Doing exactly the same wont fix it  :P

Granted sir. I admire your calmness ;), but apparently reason is being laughed at now, so I have to communicate in a manner they will understand. Especially the babyboomers should be ashamed of their vote, they of all people should know better than to vote with their wallet.

I'm not saying Wilders (and the hostages Mark and Maxime) don't have some points, because they do, it's the overal package and trend that is worrying me. It's forming division and loathing on the streets. The police are being cut so they pay their own reinforcements. 10.000 extra nurses? I work in a hospital a couple days a week, so he's not going to find them here. Geert knows where to get them though.

Hint: Leyte Gulf... ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: NTH on 05-10-2010, 17:10:05
So, now the left wing is also responsible for a government charter we didn't even write? Man, we really are good for nothing. Maybe you should deport us, we're all treehuggers and on welfare anyway.

You know Gezoes, besides the whole Anti-Islam thing, Geert Wilders and the PVV are more left then an inbred Bolshevik.

Your point being? Leftists have rightwing points and vice versa, although nobody cares. It would damage our precious hokjesgeest. I consider 1,5 milion people followers of a demagogue. I don't want to, because I can imagine very well why people flocked to Geert, but alas, most of them are too stupid and blindfolded to see the implications. But as long as anyone with a 'leftist' view (I have right wing views as well) is supposedly on welfare, I will call all rightwing voters sheep when dealing with VVD-voters and possibly even, for the PVV-voters: traitors to the constitution.

Sounds harsh? Tough luck 8)

The point being, little Mark Rutte is saying it will be a goverment agreement from which the right wing can lick it fingers off, while PVV is more left then SP and PvdA combined. It find it ironic, hence the rolling eye smiley at the fact that Wilders got both his rightwinged and leftwinged point delivered.

By the way you placed me in the wrong "hokje" ;) I am stuck in the middle kind of guy.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 16-02-2011, 20:02:25
Within two days, we Belgians break the world record of government negotiations  8)
Even Iraq was able to form a government in less days then Belgium. Tomorrow we will have 249 day without a government (same as the current record of Iraq ) and it doesn't seem like we will have one soon ....
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 16-02-2011, 20:02:47
Whoopywhoop, i will be in Ghent, we should celebrate together :)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 16-02-2011, 20:02:26
We are awesome. And this record will stand for a long long time!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 17-02-2011, 22:02:05
Ladies and Gentleman, we got it!

We are now on position 1 AND 5 in the world record top 5 for longest without a goverment.
We have to watch out for Tibet though, they are only like a few months behind us and seem to be well on there way in our direction.

Next party is at 300! :)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: NTH on 17-02-2011, 22:02:58
Ladies and Gentleman, we got it!

We are now on position 1 AND 5 in the world record top 5 for longest without a goverment.
We have to watch out for Tibet though, they are only like a few months behind us and seem to be well on there way in our direction.

Next party is at 300! :)

Congrats, I am keeping a seat warm fro you in our Parliament, when you finally decide on a divorce.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 17-02-2011, 22:02:28
WE ARE NUMBER ONE
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 17-02-2011, 23:02:46
Congratulations to Belgium.

Meanwhile everyone can start bidding on Belgium.

Starting bid is 10 euros.

Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: DLFReporter on 18-02-2011, 08:02:56
Starting bid is 10 euros.

I'll give you 1€.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Mud Buddha on 18-02-2011, 09:02:31
Congrats to all the belgians!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-02-2011, 09:02:53
Congrats to all the belgians!
Thanks  ;D

And if there where 10 steps of forming a goverment, we would still be at step 5. in other words, we are so gonna keep this record for ages baby
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 18-02-2011, 13:02:37
Starting bid is 10 euros.

I'll give you 1€.
Sorry but a mr. Sarkozy already bid 10 euros.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 18-02-2011, 13:02:52
Starting bid is 10 euros.

I'll give you 1€.

While you can bid on Belgium as a whole package, we also consider to sell it in separate bits, so please specify if you are bidding on the french, dutch or german speaking part or on brussels, also sold separately.

Quote
Sorry but a mr. Sarkozy already bid 10 euros.

he was only interested in Wallonia, you can still bid on the rest ! 
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 18-02-2011, 15:02:58
5 euros on Flanders! Waffles and fries! Oh and a few friends live there, I want to own their houses.

But seriously, is anything really happening with the formation? If nobody wants to play with eachother, then whats the use of going on? Why do the party's keep bitching instead of forming something?

I also saw a video a while ago about the Belgian government system, looks fucked up. Just reform and vote?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-02-2011, 16:02:45
Our goverment system is indeed fucked up

Problem is, nobody here has the balls to change/reform anything
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 18-02-2011, 18:02:23
NVA and CV&V want to change things, to bad the walloon politicians are so greedy. I am glad the Flemish politicians are not backing down this time, if i have to vote again i will vote the same.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 18-02-2011, 19:02:16
NVA wants everything, and want to keep the walloons to keep saying no cause splittnig belgium is their ultimate goal, BOTH sides are wrong, reason i never voted for any of them.

Belgium is just fine if it wasnt for those politicians
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-02-2011, 19:02:33
Aye.

ALL political parties are wrong in belgium
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 18-02-2011, 19:02:35
Aye.

ALL political parties are wrong in belgium

bingo, remember we live in belgium, so act in interest of all belgians.

Belgians are probably the most frustrated people i know on the planet, and all the problems is always caused by the other guys. this whole thing is so fake and forced it would be funny if it wasnt our economy at stake, try being an investor who thinks belgium is about to blow up, yet when you live here everything is just fine and dandy, those polcitians are playing with fire to fill their own pockets.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 18-02-2011, 19:02:30
Don't really follow it that much, but i guess your right.

We should revolt.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 18-02-2011, 19:02:12
Don't really follow it that much, but i guess your right.

We should revolt.

no need to revolt, but i think we should kick out every single politician that was ever mentioned on TV, cause they all suck.

Time to start with new people, tired of seeing the same people ruling this country since i remember following the news.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 18-02-2011, 22:02:58
Those who don't vote, shouldn't whine is what my grandfather used to say.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-02-2011, 22:02:36
It doesnt matter to me, as long as belgium survives. Splitting is the worst thing we can ever do. If it happens, im migrating to holland
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 18-02-2011, 22:02:53
Don't be an idiot. Holland is a mess and the Netherlands in a whole is not that fun either. Plus you have to sell your rifles. And then do a year training at a sporting school, pay alot of cash, wait for license, buy rifles back.  :-X

Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 18-02-2011, 22:02:18
Those who don't vote, shouldn't whine is what my grandfather used to say.

in belgium you have to go to the booth, and its up to you if you select a party or not.
so i do go.
but when there are 16 parties that are retarded, i wont vote for any of them, cause when i do vote i am not allowed to whine about the consequences.

so no offense to your grandad, but that line is complete false.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 19-02-2011, 13:02:13
Ah ok, so in your logic it is the voters who should shut up about the government and the non-voters should talk about how bad everything is and how much it sucks?

No offense to you but thats even more false.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 19-02-2011, 13:02:24
Don't be an idiot. Holland is a mess and the Netherlands in a whole is not that fun either. Plus you have to sell your rifles. And then do a year training at a sporting school, pay alot of cash, wait for license, buy rifles back.  :-X


Fine, im migrating to Egypt.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 19-02-2011, 15:02:37
Ah ok, so in your logic it is the voters who should shut up about the government and the non-voters should talk about how bad everything is and how much it sucks?

No offense to you but thats even more false.

what ... ?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Kelmola on 19-02-2011, 23:02:52
in belgium you have to go to the booth, and its up to you if you select a party or not.
so i do go.
but when there are 16 parties that are retarded, i wont vote for any of them, cause when i do vote i am not allowed to whine about the consequences.
When in doubt, do what every skeptical Finn does. Vote for The Phantom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom). Call the Phantom anywhere, and he will hear (old jungle saying).

To vote for The Phantom, simply draw the ininity sign ∞ instead of writing a number (or checking a box, don't know what kind of ballots you have to fill in) to symbolize his mask.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 20-02-2011, 00:02:23
in belgium you have to go to the booth, and its up to you if you select a party or not.
so i do go.
but when there are 16 parties that are retarded, i wont vote for any of them, cause when i do vote i am not allowed to whine about the consequences.
When in doubt, do what every skeptical Finn does. Vote for The Phantom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom). Call the Phantom anywhere, and he will hear (old jungle saying).

To vote for The Phantom, simply draw the ininity sign ∞ instead of writing a number (or checking a box, don't know what kind of ballots you have to fill in) to symbolize his mask.

we vote on computers now so you cant do that, but back when we voted on paper and you would write something like "fuck voting" or anything else not accepted as official vote or non vote, your ballot would count automaticly as a vote for the party with the most votes as default to discourage it.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Musti on 20-02-2011, 12:02:30

we vote on computers now so you cant do that, but back when we voted on paper and you would write something like "fuck voting" or anything else not accepted as official vote or non vote, your ballot would count automaticly as a vote for the party with the most votes as default to discourage it.
That is the most retarded thing i've ever heard!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 20-02-2011, 12:02:54
only in the cities votes are held with computers. Most Belgians still vote on paper.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 20-02-2011, 13:02:13
only in the cities votes are held with computers. Most Belgians still vote on paper.

A rather big paper, and they usually give a blunt pencil with it aswell.

Voting for me is always fun, the place i have to go to has a lot of different offices to go and vote, there are always big lines, but on mine there is never someone else. so funny. I am in and out in less then 3 minutes.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Velvet_Revolver on 21-02-2011, 00:02:57
I'm walloon, but I studied in Flanders for quite some time, so I guess I have a pretty accurate view of what people think of each other on both sides of this preposterous language frontier. The observations are frightening, really : some political parties on both sides have succeeded, with the helping hand of the media in search of communitarian sensationalism, into creating false images of the walloons and flemish people. Stereotypes, if you will, that are so strong they are anchored in most of the common people's minds by now. Unfortunately, most people are too lazy/stubborn to confront those stereotypes with the reality.

Let me give you some examples:

Walloons are greedy, lazy and profit from a very generous amount of money earned by the hard-working Flemish people. That's the kind of thing you would hear from De Wever's filthy mouth...
Flemish are frustrated farmers, and xenophobic too. They want to make the walloons pay for what's been done to them in the past. That's the kind of thing you would from a moron like Maingain or Happart...
Those stereotypes are so far from the truth that I won't even try to spend energy to debunk them.

Now, how can we still efficiently functionate as one country when the people's trust in each other is blasted away by such words ? We still don't have a government, and frankly, it doesn't surprise me. It's gonna make things worse, though... Voters on both sides will tend to be more radical the next time they'll send us to the voting booth, that's what I'm afraid of.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Kev4000 on 21-02-2011, 01:02:23
Those who don't vote, shouldn't whine is what my grandfather used to say.

just refer to the giant douche/turd sandwich south park episode.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 21-02-2011, 09:02:17
Hehe, that was a great example of voting..
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-02-2011, 10:02:36
I'm walloon, but I studied in Flanders for quite some time, so I guess I have a pretty accurate view of what people think of each other on both sides of this preposterous language frontier. The observations are frightening, really : some political parties on both sides have succeeded, with the helping hand of the media in search of communitarian sensationalism, into creating false images of the walloons and flemish people. Stereotypes, if you will, that are so strong they are anchored in most of the common people's minds by now. Unfortunately, most people are too lazy/stubborn to confront those stereotypes with the reality.

Let me give you some examples:

Walloons are greedy, lazy and profit from a very generous amount of money earned by the hard-working Flemish people. That's the kind of thing you would hear from De Wever's filthy mouth...
Flemish are frustrated farmers, and xenophobic too. They want to make the walloons pay for what's been done to them in the past. That's the kind of thing you would from a moron like Maingain or Happart...
Those stereotypes are so far from the truth that I won't even try to spend energy to debunk them.

Now, how can we still efficiently functionate as one country when the people's trust in each other is blasted away by such words ? We still don't have a government, and frankly, it doesn't surprise me. It's gonna make things worse, though... Voters on both sides will tend to be more radical the next time they'll send us to the voting booth, that's what I'm afraid of.
Stereotypes are indeed what ruins the relation between us flemish people and you walloons.

These stereotypes are mostly created by both our political parties and people high up in the chain
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 05-04-2011, 20:04:23
Whoopy, almost to 300 days! just a week or so to go.

My demands for the politicians, Back to the original borders!

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Quad_Flandria.jpg)

Flanders Forever!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Armoiries_comte_de_Flandres.png)

Trololollolol


Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 05-04-2011, 20:04:25
AKA= SUSFU

Situation Unchanged, Still Fucked Up
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 06-04-2011, 15:04:01
Are the situation there very serious?

i.e. third world serious?

I mean, not the kind of European or North American bullshit serious (your president being rickrolled in front of journalists). Instead, more like 2011 Egypt or 2010 Thailand?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 06-04-2011, 15:04:53
*facepalms


Belgium politics in nutshell
Flemish parties= WE WANT THE THINGS OUR WAY AND WE WONT GIVE IN
Walloon parties= WE WANT THE THINGS OUR WAY AND WE WONT GIVE IN

And thats the current situation still
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 06-04-2011, 16:04:41
Are the situation there very serious?

i.e. third world serious?

I mean, not the kind of European or North American bullshit serious (your president being rickrolled in front of journalists). Instead, more like 2011 Egypt or 2010 Thailand?

no. It's neither of those.
It's about old problems that got delayed during each government forming since 1970. But it has a reason why it kept getting delayed, as neither parties could get a satisfying agreement.

Now we want to get trough this big bullshit once and for all, but the old contrasts between the participants remain, and thus nothing gets achieved.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 06-04-2011, 16:04:40
But that's what democracy has been a bitch for right?

In India, where there are more than a thousand parties (including local-specific parties), they all have been hampering local infrastructure developments for whatever reason they can find, while in truth, they are just seeking ways to make the project contributes to their own popularity. Thus no "puff" magic growth like China, despite their common size and potential.

We have 43 political party, apparently with no clear ideology. The one who claim to be religious party (Islamic parties, Catholic National, and Christian "Peace & Prosperity" Party) are not so distinctive and very compromising. Yet none can really agree on something good to be worked on. They are just wasting tax payer money, sitting in the AC-ed parliament building, quarreling, then taking a break to restaurant, spa, and gym, then came back late to fall asleep, and then continues next day.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 06-04-2011, 16:04:57
Whoopy, almost to 300 days! just a week or so to go.

My demands for the politicians, Back to the original borders!

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Quad_Flandria.jpg)

Flanders Forever!

Trololollolol




good, then I no longer live in flanders :P
Duchy of Brabant WTF 

Quote
But that's what democracy has been a bitch for right?

In India, where there are more than a thousand parties (including local-specific parties), they all have been hampering local infrastructure developments for whatever reason they can find, while in truth, they are just seeking ways to make the project contributes to their own popularity. Thus no "puff" magic growth like China, despite their common size and potential.

We have 43 political party, apparently with no clear ideology. The one who claim to be religious party (Islamic parties, Catholic National, and Christian "Peace & Prosperity" Party) are not so distinctive and very compromising. Yet none can really agree on something good to be worked on. They are just wasting tax payer money, sitting in the AC-ed parliament building, quarreling, then taking a break to restaurant, spa, and gym, then came back late to fall asleep, and then continues next day.

It's a bit less straight forward then that. The parties surely have a future vision, but it's contradictory on both sides of the linguistic border.

I suggest you watch this video, it explanes quite well why this nation is running on squares.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwHotpl9DA
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 06-04-2011, 19:04:41
Well, saw the video, apart from the typical European uniqueness bragging, the information is very useful, thanks.

There has been similar schism between our east and west too. But we wouldn't allow such individual parliament for each region which is equally powerful as the central government. We got a regional congress to represent voices within the provinces, and each forms a representative in the central, with hierarchical structure... not equal. Can't see the reason behind why it should be made equally powerful.

I can see the problem with your capital city being located in the Dutch zone.

Many people also complained that our capital too is located in Java island in a country that perceived to be, "Java-centric" government as perceived by other ethnic groups. All of our 6 presidents are Javanese, from the 300+ different ethnic groups. But that doesn't matter, since they made 58% of the total population.

The solution to the problem might be to make a third political opinion. Don't let this two divide the society the way Republicans and Democrat slice Americans into two. Well, it is always best to have more, because the more number of opinions, the more we want to learn about them and try to do something about the others.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 06-04-2011, 20:04:38
Uniqueness bragging? All I see is them polishing away the stereotype of that jolly guy with a bowler who likes to drink beer.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 06-04-2011, 20:04:37
And setting some things straight like that Swiss Chocolat and French fries are Belgian, not Swiss or French.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 06-04-2011, 20:04:02
the video is meant as a satire , maybe I should have told that from the beginning :P

But non the less, it the political representation is more or less correct, and that's where it's all about. Don't pay attention to the other bullcrap though  :)

Quote
The solution to the problem might be to make a third political opinion. Don't let this two divide the society the way Republicans and Democrat slice Americans into two. Well, it is always best to have more, because the more number of opinions, the more we want to learn about them and try to do something about the others.

tried this. German minority was given the option to come to a solution, did not work.

Quote
But we wouldn't allow such individual parliament for each region which is equally powerful as the central government. We got a regional congress to represent voices within the provinces, and each forms a representative in the central, with hierarchical structure... not equal. Can't see the reason behind why it should be made equally powerful.

agree there should be. It was made equal so one of another region would not force policies within another. Leads to very stupid regional policies which should actually be  national.

For instance, if a factory wants to put down a plant in Belgium, it will get different environmental quota for each of the 3 regions, despite the fact you dump your waist in the same river that flows trough each region.

Quote
I can see the problem with your capital city being located in the Dutch zone.

It's not, it is its own separate region , but there is indeed a Dutch ring around it , if that's what you mean. But there are also isolated Dutch communities in wallonia who are cut off from flanders and everything seems to work.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 07-04-2011, 15:04:59
If you are one nation, why is it a problem being a Waloon inside a Flander land and vice versa?

I bet 80% of the world population can't tell the difference between them before they speak something. The historical should mean not much really.

In the past, Sundanese was defeated in a war by the Javanese, they lived in the same island of Java. Our capital region settles in Sundanese region, yet most of the population is Javanese. We mix Portuguese, Arabic, Indian, Chinese, Sundanese, Javanese, and later Dutch all into one culture called Betawi, which essentially is native to the capital city of Jakarta.

In the past, our history class teach us to hate the Dutch as being cunning and subversive. Yet none remembered such. Ik never felt that way, jij should too! Tell the political party that you both know all of their divisive nonsense.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 07-04-2011, 19:04:50
i lived with walloons in a diff country for 14 years , yet we all came to belgium feeling more belgian than those who never met a walloon or been to wallonia, its all about money and racism, but mostly the latter with the first as excuse.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 07-04-2011, 19:04:18
You have Flemish , you have walloons

and you have BELGIANS

Huge diffrence

Im from flanders and i love flanders but i love wallonia as much
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Paasky on 07-04-2011, 20:04:18
You have Flemish , you have walloons

and you have BELGIANS

Huge diffrence

Im from flanders and i love flanders but i love wallonia as much
You do realize they are all the exact same thing: Flat land.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 07-04-2011, 20:04:52
You have Flemish , you have walloons

and you have BELGIANS

Huge diffrence

Im from flanders and i love flanders but i love wallonia as much
You do realize they are all the exact same thing: Flat land.
Wallonia has hills  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 07-04-2011, 20:04:34
And they got a wall too.

Which means that Flanders got...
Flan!

(http://www.acemn.com/website/images/flan.jpg)


So what is the whole procedure to reform the entire government system? Let that funny king use his divine powers!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 07-04-2011, 20:04:59
What powers? ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 07-04-2011, 21:04:37
About no difference between Flemish and Walloon, why do you think we speak a completely different language? there must be a big historical difference, probably tribe related like they are Roman decent, we are Germanic decent.

Also, i guess 8 out of 10 times correctly if someone is French or Dutch speaking at work. you really can see it often.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 07-04-2011, 21:04:16
What powers? ;D
Exactly.

Funny stuff with prince Laurent though, I giggled  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 08-04-2011, 04:04:22
We speak like 30 different languages with 150+ local dialect variety.

We are racially different either, unlike Flanders and Waloons who basically are Caucasians, Western Indonesia is Austronesian brown people, whereas the easts are Polynesian black people.

Anyway, difference shouldn't put you into governance disarray. No wonder Belgians have little international ventures. Some that I know, includes Guylian Chocolate Sea Shells and Hoegaarden, which has just started selling here last January and people become crazy about them.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Lightning on 08-04-2011, 12:04:41
The Flanders-Wallonia division is economic if anything. Historically, Wallonia relied on its coal and iron industries, but after the war the coal production pretty much stopped. Now, Wallonia is suffering from very high levels of unemployment and it has a significantly lower GDP than Flanders. Of course, Belgium puts a lot of money into development projects for the worst regions, but the Flemish see this as all of 'their' tax money going to the Walloons. The language divide makes it worse, as it's a lot easier to get an "us-vs-them" thing going.

Still, Indonesia has its own problems too, with the south Moluccas and Papua.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 08-04-2011, 16:04:03
The Flanders-Wallonia division is economic if anything. Historically, Wallonia relied on its coal and iron industries, but after the war the coal production pretty much stopped. Now, Wallonia is suffering from very high levels of unemployment and it has a significantly lower GDP than Flanders. Of course, Belgium puts a lot of money into development projects for the worst regions, but the Flemish see this as all of 'their' tax money going to the Walloons. The language divide makes it worse, as it's a lot easier to get an "us-vs-them" thing going.

Still, Indonesia has its own problems too, with the south Moluccas and Papua.

the devision has been there since day one, even when wallonia was rich and flanders a bunch of farmers ( we thank the car and IT industry in flanders thanks to the metal industry in wallonia btw ) the money thing is just an excuse to seed the hatred.

whenever a flemish starts about wallonia and money i tell them we should ditch province of antwerp cause it costs more than Limburg, a discussion that no seperatist can win unless it comes down to language.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 08-04-2011, 17:04:13
The Flanders-Wallonia division is economic if anything. Historically, Wallonia relied on its coal and iron industries, but after the war the coal production pretty much stopped. Now, Wallonia is suffering from very high levels of unemployment and it has a significantly lower GDP than Flanders. Of course, Belgium puts a lot of money into development projects for the worst regions, but the Flemish see this as all of 'their' tax money going to the Walloons. The language divide makes it worse, as it's a lot easier to get an "us-vs-them" thing going.

Still, Indonesia has its own problems too, with the south Moluccas and Papua.

That division of Eastern people, namely Maluku (Moluccas) and Papua is mainly religious conflicts, a thing so old and abandoned in their homeland of Europe.

Aceh (western most Indonesia), is an autonomic province, granting them full control about their own governance and law. They chose shari'a and strict Islamic code. They proudly call their land "The gate to Mecca."

East Papua (eastern most Indonesia), which is split from Papua (into East and West), rejects all Islamic spread and influence. They seek to deny their activity there, which is granted by the central government. They are strict Roman Catholics and proudly call their land "The gate to Jerusalem." (instead of Vatican city)

Same reason with Southern and Northern Maluku. Unlike Belgium, people here have been involved in bloody violence until the government divided them into two separate province. The Northern one is now free to apply their own Shari'a law, where the Southern Christians aren't subjected to no longer.

Separatists often argued about Islam dominance in our government, thus it can never be fair to them. So they keep seeking independence, which can be quite a mess, really. Probably, after they are done with their very own Republic, they'll start ousting Muslim minorities or worst, started purging them in Srpska Republic style. Which would call more violence within the border. Most people lost sympathy for them after witnessing the degree of violence involved there (e.g. gutting pregnant women).
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 18-05-2011, 21:05:17
Day 331 and counting. We are still nowhere. King says he will not allow new elections.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 18-05-2011, 21:05:18
But a funny guy with a red bow tie will fix it all!!

Fail election system + monarchy. Try and hit a 1,000 days, that would be cool.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 18-05-2011, 21:05:08
We will just skip a government and have the new elections as planned in a year or 3 :p
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Pr0z4c on 19-05-2011, 09:05:53
Im ashamed and embarrassed of the dutch goverment. especially because of one party. PVV.... oh man they have some ''brilliant'' people there.  >:(

the things they say and the plans they got.. Oh man just brilliant. and the best of all they all do exelent research before comming with a statement.  sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm


Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 19-05-2011, 12:05:08
Why ashamed off the government? PVV is not in the government.

I would never vote for the PVV, bunch of populists combining left and right winged views, but I am happy that they support this government.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Pr0z4c on 19-05-2011, 14:05:31
Why ashamed off the government? PVV is not in the government.

I would never vote for the PVV, bunch of populists combining left and right winged views, but I am happy that they support this government.

yeah they are not in the goverment, i know, but without them this current goverment would not be there.
I'm a bit ashamed of the fact that many people voted on that party without looking into the facts.

I have some friends who live in Germany, France and Italy, and the first thing they asked after the elections was ''why are there so many nazi's in Hollland''?

now this may be a somewhat over reacted, but the fact it was asked to me shows how other countries see the developments happening in Holland.

to be able to vote on different parties, to have democracy is a wonderfull thing, and the pvv has is right to be there. and its great to have a discussion with someone who vieuws certain things in a different way, this way you can be open minded and learn from each other ect.

but it bothers me sometimes that this party gets away with some radical statements
and the pvv refuses to go into discusion most of the time

to me it is not very democratic and its hypocrite, to throw around with all kinds of statements and not be able to back them up or have a discusion about it
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 19-05-2011, 14:05:22
You can discuss and debate with them, aslong as you dont want to actually win or convince ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 19-05-2011, 16:05:28
Why ashamed off the government? PVV is not in the government.

I would never vote for the PVV, bunch of populists combining left and right winged views, but I am happy that they support this government.

yeah they are not in the goverment, i know, but without them this current goverment would not be there.
I'm a bit ashamed of the fact that many people voted on that party without looking into the facts.

I have some friends who live in Germany, France and Italy, and the first thing they asked after the elections was ''why are there so many nazi's in Hollland''?

now this may be a somewhat over reacted, but the fact it was asked to me shows how other countries see the developments happening in Holland.

to be able to vote on different parties, to have democracy is a wonderfull thing, and the pvv has is right to be there. and its great to have a discussion with someone who vieuws certain things in a different way, this way you can be open minded and learn from each other ect.

but it bothers me sometimes that this party gets away with some radical statements
and the pvv refuses to go into discusion most of the time

to me it is not very democratic and its hypocrite, to throw around with all kinds of statements and not be able to back them up or have a discusion about it

To call them Nazi's is a very big thing, they don't even come close to that. And your friends from France should look at Le Pen, your friends from Italy at their own President and the granddaughter of Il Duce and Germany. Well they are Germans.

However I do agree that the percentage of neo-Nazi's over here is.. shocking.

Regarding discussions, the problem of the PVV are their members. The only one really capable of properly discussing is Wilders himself, the hardcore around him are decent and then there's a bunch of clowns and idiots.

And why should someone not vote for them? I would never vote for them, too much like the SP in my opinion but seriously, what 'radical' ideas do they have that would harm our country? Wilders is not Janmaat  :P
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 19-05-2011, 19:05:07
Wilders is not Janmaat  :P
Some stuff Janmaat was talking about in the 90s and then discarded as being radical, would nowadays be considered soft by Wilders and his friends. So no, he is not Janmaat, he says more radical stuff. And the Telegraaf helps him spreading his BS.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Pr0z4c on 19-05-2011, 19:05:47
Wilders is not Janmaat  :P
Some stuff Janmaat was talking about in the 90s and then discarded as being radical, would nowadays be considered soft by Wilders and his friends. So no, he is not Janmaat, he says more radical stuff. And the Telegraaf helps him spreading his BS.

amen!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Eglaerinion on 19-05-2011, 19:05:30
Wilders just says what alot of people thingk and feel. Whether you agree with it or not it doesn't change the fact that he represents a large portion of the Dutch population.

Sadly his party is needed to help the current government to a majority. It's the lesser of two evils though.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 19-05-2011, 20:05:13
Wilders is not Janmaat  :P
Some stuff Janmaat was talking about in the 90s and then discarded as being radical, would nowadays be considered soft by Wilders and his friends. So no, he is not Janmaat, he says more radical stuff. And the Telegraaf helps him spreading his BS.

More radical stuff? Name examples, that's two hollow arguments in the last 2 pages. I dislike Wilders but I disgust the standard hate so many Dutch people seem to have 'he's racist', 'he's like Hitler', etc.

And I'm all with Eglaerinion, as long as Rutte I stands.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Pr0z4c on 19-05-2011, 21:05:32
Today's most hilaric statement of the Pvv.

its about the financial problems in Greece. according to the Pvv:  Greece has to get out of the European union because its a bottomless well and we are paying for something we have nothing to do with.

well clear talk for ''henk and Ingrid'' (average joe) who are not very smart anyway. they would agree, its the tax payers money anyway.

So: as a responce Nout wellink, head of the Bank of the Netherlands, had the following to say. It was very unwise for Wilders to come up with this statement a: because he is suporting the goverment. b:because the Dutch tax payer and a lot of dutch and european businesses have monny there, i the meanings of pension fundings, work ect ect ect.
the statement of Wilders would cause only trouble. so thus the point of vieuw of Nout wellink.

and above all we as a European Union should help each other, why would there be a EU if we didnt help each other.

The PVV answered back: Nout wellink is not worthy of being in charge as the head of the bank. he is not serving the nation as he should and he is incapable of doing his job right, he has to retire.

Clearly the PVV and Wilders have no freaking clue how economics works. but because of Henk and Ingrid he is throwing a statement like this, so people in Holland can say:

yeah well Wilders is just saying what alot of people are thinking.

well alot of people are not thinking at all! And are just following things what he is saying. And most things they say are not backed up by facts at all!


Enough from my part about this, i stop arguing about this. I have said what i wanted to say. We dont have to agree but this is how i see it  :)



Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 19-05-2011, 22:05:43
Nout Wellink and PVV. Shit and shit. What to pick  :P
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 20-05-2011, 17:05:33
Nice post, Mik. I agree about the lack of thinking on Henk and Ingrid's part and I also agree about the lack of factual backup for PVV statements.

More radical stuff? Name examples, that's two hollow arguments in the last 2 pages. I dislike Wilders but I disgust the standard hate so many Dutch people seem to have 'he's racist', 'he's like Hitler', etc.

And I'm all with Eglaerinion, as long as Rutte I stands.
Pffft, just because I don't feed you examples immediately my argument is hollow? Please learn to discuss/argue first.

I will give you examples:
- Wilders proposed to shoot with live ammo at rioteers. This was because of a footballgame which got out of hand. Btw: the match was between Young Netherlands and Young Morocco. I really wonder if Wilders would have said the same if it was a match vs Young Germany for example.
- Wilders exaggerates the influence of islam. He tries to scare people for a minority, blowing stuff out of proportions, even proposing to deport muslims. He calls immigrants "islamic voting cattle", wearing "kopvodden". Useless insulting, just to get more votes from Henk and Ingrid.
- Wilders accuses our judicial system to be biased towards the sharia. Maybe this isn't more radical than Janmaat, it is more ridiculous.

I never said that Wilders is racist or that he is like Hitler. Why do you react like that?

Btw: if Wilders is so smart as some people say but he still keeps leading a political party full of dumbasses who only want their face on TV by saying stupid things, then why isn't he just dismissing all silly members? Why not try to make his party look like a serious option to vote for?

About Rutte I: I strongly disgaree with these kind of politics, but since we are a democracy, I have to live with it for now. I just hope they don't destroy too much, like the cultural sector, public transport and education (like they are doing now).
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 20-05-2011, 17:05:31
STILL NO GOVERMENT  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Pr0z4c on 21-05-2011, 10:05:00
STILL NO GOVERMENT  ;D

ah man, lets hope that Belgium has a new goverment soon. this cant be right, right?

but your country is political so strange made up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceg6NQKHd70\
no disrespect with this vid, i love the Belgians, great people  :)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Pr0z4c on 21-05-2011, 10:05:08
bwaahahahahaa! ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ak6AmAn_cY&feature=related
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Mud Buddha on 27-06-2011, 16:06:26
STILL NO GOVERMENT  ;D

And now?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 27-06-2011, 18:06:22
Nope, nothing has changed :D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 27-06-2011, 18:06:13
STILL NO GOVERMENT  ;D

And now?
still at step 2. or have we fallen back to step one? :v
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 27-06-2011, 18:06:36
I bet they paused everything because that funny guy with his bow-tie couldn't speak.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 27-06-2011, 18:06:41
An interesting thing did happen though, a politician fell for the oldest trick in the book.
http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/989/Binnenland/article/detail/1284138/2011/06/27/Steve-Stevaert-betaalde-afpersers.dhtml

Married politician->hot mistress-> videotape->mistress wants hard cash to keep it silent
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: NTH on 27-06-2011, 20:06:37
He should have take the Clinton way out and make a book deal out of it.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 06-09-2011, 20:09:14
450 days with no government! And still nothing in sight for any time soon.

This is getting silly now.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 07-09-2011, 00:09:33
Wanna have Wilders?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 07-09-2011, 00:09:48
Wanna have Wilders?
we rather have HITLER

ooh wait.......

No we dont neither
give us this man, he looks trustworthy

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/DogofRed/RedDog/comical_ali.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Butcher on 07-09-2011, 01:09:31
i heard gaddafi looks for a new job. i bet he already is in belgium.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Dukat on 07-09-2011, 01:09:38
Wanna have Wilders?
we rather have HITLER

ooh wait.......

No we dont neither


Think about it twice. He will unite your country in no-time, making everybody hate muslims instead of each other.

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1494/geertwilders.jpg)

Btw my gay neighbour is looking for a new hairdresser. I guess Wilders got a proper answer in this case as well.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 07-09-2011, 01:09:21
Here we go again. Wilders haters, assemble and fire the rage!

DISCLAIMER: Before I get flamed, yelled at or beaten in an alley, I think he's an idiot. But giving him attention is not the proper way of dealing with a populist. It's what he wants, more attention generates more support. Ignore him and he will disappear.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 07-09-2011, 10:09:58
Herr Fuchs is right..

Besides none of these yokels have brains for a good economy
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 07-09-2011, 20:09:14
Looks like the Mayor of Aalst had a good idea

(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/305487_1975249824915_1353155091_31739859_1761762144_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 07-09-2011, 20:09:47
Here we go again. Wilders haters, assemble and fire the rage!

DISCLAIMER: Before I get flamed, yelled at or beaten in an alley, I think he's an idiot. But giving him attention is not the proper way of dealing with a populist. It's what he wants, more attention generates more support. Ignore him and he will disappear.

Well history has proven ignoring them wont help either.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 07-09-2011, 22:09:53
Here we go again. Wilders haters, assemble and fire the rage!

DISCLAIMER: Before I get flamed, yelled at or beaten in an alley, I think he's an idiot. But giving him attention is not the proper way of dealing with a populist. It's what he wants, more attention generates more support. Ignore him and he will disappear.

Well history has proven ignoring them wont help either.
And by assaulting them you are turning into the Godwin you are pointing at. He and his supporters are put into corners, labeled by opponents as Nazi's, stupid and whatever. He needs protection or else there is chance he gets killed, PVV party members get assaulted. One in his own house a few days ago.

If you really believe he wants to re-open Auschwitz to burn muslims you are just too stupid to walk this earth.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Kelmola on 07-09-2011, 23:09:53
Good going. Just keep shouting names at each other and you won't have a government for another 450 days. I wouldn't be so sure of a united Belgium, either.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Dukat on 08-09-2011, 00:09:09

If you really believe he wants to re-open Auschwitz to burn muslims you are just too stupid to walk this earth.

Who is believing that? Actually I believe he would deport them all.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 08-09-2011, 01:09:07
Quote
And by assaulting them you are turning into the Godwin you are pointing at. He and his supporters are put into corners, labeled by opponents as Nazi's, stupid and whatever. He needs protection or else there is chance he gets killed, PVV party members get assaulted. One in his own house a few days ago.

If you really believe he wants to re-open Auschwitz to burn muslims you are just too stupid to walk this earth.

Cant deny the facts, ofcourse its easier to exaggerate them.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 08-09-2011, 10:09:25
Quote
And by assaulting them you are turning into the Godwin you are pointing at. He and his supporters are put into corners, labeled by opponents as Nazi's, stupid and whatever. He needs protection or else there is chance he gets killed, PVV party members get assaulted. One in his own house a few days ago.

If you really believe he wants to re-open Auschwitz to burn muslims you are just too stupid to walk this earth.

Cant deny the facts, ofcourse its easier to exaggerate them.

Which facts? Line them up.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 08-09-2011, 19:09:13
...PVV party members get assaulted. One in his own house a few days ago.
They also assault other people themselves ;)

If you really believe he wants to re-open Auschwitz to burn muslims you are just too stupid to walk this earth.
Maybe not Auschwitz, but Wilders clearly stated that it was his intention to make muslims leave Europe. Some 2 years ago, I think. And Bosma, the "party ideologist" speaks of a "crusade vs islam" and that we have to "defend ourselves" because (and yes, this is actually what he said) "this time the Americans will not sacrifice their sons on the beaches of Normandy for our freedom".

Now who is too stupid to walk this earth?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 08-09-2011, 19:09:06
Geert Wilders punches people in the face? And don't start rambling about the stories about what they did. Except for that guy who punches people in bars.. But still, he's an alcoholic and he doesn't break into your house, beating you, your wife and your children.

I do remember those quotes, so I'm with you on that. And as I said before, they are dumbasses. Populists with a socialistic agenda with some rough right-wing edges. Not worth a dime. I believe both sides are too stupid to walk this Earth. He for being ignorant and the haters for.. hating him/the party/the ideology. It does the opposite, making him stronger.

But I fear the worst for Dutch politics. But still, luckily we are no Belgians.  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 08-09-2011, 19:09:11
Every nation has the government it deserves ..

That's why Belgium has none !
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 08-09-2011, 19:09:27
Every nation has the government it deserves ..

That's why Belgium had none !
well said
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 08-09-2011, 20:09:38
Geert Wilders punches people in the face? And don't start rambling about the stories about what they did. Except for that guy who punches people in bars.. But still, he's an alcoholic and he doesn't break into your house, beating you, your wife and your children.
No, not Geert, but there are several other PVV members who did. And that's what I wrote ;)

Breaking into houses and beat up families has never been a solution to anything, so I say that's wrong, even though I strongly disagree with PVV stuff.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 09-09-2011, 08:09:10
Every nation has the government it deserves ..

That's why Belgium had none !

Had? So they have a government now?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 09-09-2011, 15:09:39
small typo.

Though foreigners need to understand that Belgium hasn't had any de facto government since 2006. We Belgians are sort of getting used to to have no national government ..
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 09-09-2011, 15:09:28
small typo.

Though foreigners need to understand that Belgium hasn't had any de facto government since 2006. We Belgians are sort of getting used to to have no national government ..
^this

Despite that, our economy can pretty much run without a goverment. Unlike other countries. in EU rankings, we now went from the 19th place to the 15'th

DAM SWITZERLAND! you rich! (they being on first place)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 09-09-2011, 17:09:34
Don't be jealous. Sometimes having a lot of money doesn't mean anything is good. They were in trouble with Gaddafi before. They also a bit stuck in some kind of Muslim hate/fear complex. Despite the Walloon vs. Flanders thingy, I still think that Belgium doesn't suffer as much from that seemingly contagious fear.

About Switzerland, one of their biggest wealth making institutions has been nesting very deep in this region since last 2 decades, making sweat shop out of prestigious financial industry. An office used to be filled by snot-nosed, pompous suited dudes are now turned into sleeve-folding sweaty overtimers.

Now, the big Americans are trying to get their way here. Already losing to the Germans, they are clearly on the path of losing again to these reckless superpower. I say bloody good deal there! Let the Yanks come! They always charge us way too much for their stuff:

Swatch Full Blooded Midsize Watch $116 (Swiss)
Seiko Men's Automatic 5 Two Tone Watch $86 (Japan)

Lindt Connaisseurs Pralines 230g $17.91 (Swiss)
Guylian Chocolate Sea Shells 250g $15 (Belgium)

SIG-Sauer P226R 9 mm 15 round magazine $850 (Swiss)
FN Herstal FNP-9 9 mm 16 round magazine $400 (US/Belgium)

UBS 1 year +1 day Time Deposit in EUR (min. €5,000) unlimited 1.000% (Swiss)
Deutsche Bank 1 year Time Deposit in EUR (min. €2,500) unlimited 1.25% (Germany)
Holy carp on this one! What a cheapskate... too much money perhaps

No wonder they are rich...  :P
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 09-09-2011, 18:09:46
Swiss chocolate? you mean Belgian chocolate ;)

WE owe Swiss chocolatiers  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 09-09-2011, 18:09:51
Swiss chocolate? you mean Belgian chocolate ;)

WE owe Swiss chocolatiers  ;D

No Theta, we OWN, a big difference :)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 09-09-2011, 21:09:18
Quote
And by assaulting them you are turning into the Godwin you are pointing at. He and his supporters are put into corners, labeled by opponents as Nazi's, stupid and whatever. He needs protection or else there is chance he gets killed, PVV party members get assaulted. One in his own house a few days ago.

If you really believe he wants to re-open Auschwitz to burn muslims you are just too stupid to walk this earth.
Cant deny the facts, ofcourse its easier to exaggerate them.

Which facts? Line them up.

Igave you a fact that ignoring populists wont work out. Instead of arguing as a gentleman you put words in my mouth, as you have done before. Im done.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 10-09-2011, 01:09:54
Boohoo.

Your fact is that populists will kill people if you ignore them. Seriously, Alois Schicklgrüber's son wasn't the only populist that ever walked this goddarn earth.

I'm never done.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 14-09-2011, 15:09:31
Good.

The negotiation for a new politic formation got blown up. This time by the Walloon liberals. The King has had to come back from his vacation, possibly to accept the resignation of Elio Di rupo as formateur.

Meanwhile, the Prime minister of running affairs of our nation has found a new job, and has stated that that he will only remain Prime minister until 31/12 . So if no government is formed before Christmas, we won't even have a prime minister too :P

Absolute monarchy for the win !!!
 
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 14-09-2011, 18:09:27
Belgium wants to visit the 17th century in an independent state while they still can!  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 22-09-2011, 21:09:03
Geert was a naughty boy today!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXxjw1U_F_E

Bunch of.... oh well. This won't last :D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 22-09-2011, 21:09:09
Good.

The negotiation for a new politic formation got blown up. This time by the Walloon liberals. The King has had to come back from his vacation, possibly to accept the resignation of Elio Di rupo as formateur.

Meanwhile, the Prime minister of running affairs of our nation has found a new job, and has stated that that he will only remain Prime minister until 31/12 . So if no government is formed before Christmas, we won't even have a prime minister too :P

Absolute monarchy for the win !!!
 
Is it a goverment!

no it is chuck testa!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 22-09-2011, 21:09:28
O yea and someone from his party (Geert Wilders - > PVV) called Erdoğan (i copy pasted it) an "islamic monkey".
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 23-09-2011, 00:09:02
Smiles is Rutte, lol. Rutte was twisting words. Can't believe Pechtold said that though, even though he is a strange guy  :P
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 23-09-2011, 11:09:38
Alright, i didnt know that, and i still dont. But even if he said " The islamic monkey appears out of the sleeve of Erdoğan" its still racism.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Lightning on 23-09-2011, 14:09:52
So this is where my tax money goes...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: hankypanky on 23-09-2011, 15:09:05
Rofl the Belgian fails keep staking up. I think you guys should refuse to pay taxes until your government gets your shit together. Or perhaps you guys can elect Obama to lead you country, lol then you can have CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN. Or  you can have Wilders the Nazi lead your country XD
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 23-09-2011, 16:09:36
(http://www.hetnieuwejournaal.nl/wp-content/2010/04/groot-nederland.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Eat Uranium on 23-09-2011, 16:09:05
I say we put Theta in charge.  That would defiantly change things ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-09-2011, 16:09:58
Germany THINKS they can protect there own economy by closing down opel antwerp!
GERMAN BIAS I TOLD YA?

THEY TOOOK URR JOOBBBSSSS
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 23-09-2011, 20:09:27
Every once in a while, one reflects on the unique form of the landmass that is Holland. It just looks cooler without the annexation hehe. I like Flanders a lot though. Good food, artists and heritage, very cool flag and lovely women + dito accent. Frak the investment, we're losing it anyway :D

We live in interesting times, but it's crazy to see the developments in both our countries.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Stefan on 23-09-2011, 23:09:53
Germany THINKS they can protect there own economy by closing down opel antwerp!
GERMAN BIAS I TOLD YA?

THEY TOOOK URR JOOBBBSSSS

It was GM's decision
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 21-11-2011, 23:11:58
today we are further away from a government then ever before. They tried it without the NVA for 6 months now, but it doesn't work out either. The formateur Elio Di Rupo gave his resignation to the king today . Nobody knows what will happen now ; almost 2 years have passed (well 1.5, but when they are installed it will be 2), if a government is formed it will be at half legislature already.

Prime minister of running affairs will need to put out our nation balance for the second time now. He also said he'll quit his job on 1/12 so it looks like we might also need to replace them. I don't think we'll have a government before next year.

Nice mess we're into here 
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-11-2011, 23:11:43
Thats what ya get when you have 6 retarded politcal parties who ALL want there needs and nothing else

Politics, i hate Politics
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 23-11-2011, 14:11:45
let's kill De Croo, he's the one who kicked Bart out and that's the SECOND time he pulls the plug on...on...well, the country...
 
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 23-11-2011, 18:11:31
Let's just get rid of the socialists for 2 years till the elections come again.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 23-11-2011, 20:11:48
also a good idea
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-11-2011, 20:11:02
lets get rid of all politics and import a finnish warbear
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 23-11-2011, 20:11:54
even better
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: NTH on 23-11-2011, 22:11:26
Let's raise the interest on Belgian sovereign bonds..... oh wait that's already happened. Hello new Greece and Italy  :D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 23-11-2011, 23:11:25
My Queen, isn't it clear? The rebels should be assaulted now! Why? They are weak, they have no leadership and they can't seem to get one. A nation without leaders can not hold itself together. I urge you to sign this document that allows us to destroy the rebels in the south. An we'll get the Duke of Luxembourg in the same strike as well.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-11-2011, 23:11:28
i wouldnt mind joining up with the Dutch. As long as our current political leaders get excecuted, its all fine by me
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 24-11-2011, 17:11:43
O noo.. our politicians dont like foreigners atm. Better stay there, far away.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 24-11-2011, 18:11:40
i wouldnt mind joining up with the Dutch. As long as our current political leaders get excecuted, its all fine by me

In Holland it is almost impossible to get a gun licence for anything over .22
They demilitarise by welding the rifles shut and pouring lead in the barrel.

We do not want to be part of them, trust me :)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 24-11-2011, 18:11:59
i wouldnt mind joining up with the Dutch. As long as our current political leaders get excecuted, its all fine by me

In Holland it is almost impossible to get a gun licence for anything over .22
They demilitarise by welding the rifles shut and pouring lead in the barrel.

We do not want to be part of them, trust me :)
ooh
yeah
that
FFUUUCCKKKAAA YOOU HOLLLLAAANNNDD
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 24-11-2011, 18:11:23
My fellow Vlamingen, long have we been overlooked and oppressed by these French-speaking tyrants. Now is the chance to get rid of the absolute monarchy in the hands of the Italo-Namuric maffia!

REVOLUTIE IN VLAANDEREN!!
maar niet na 10 uur (denk aan de buren)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 24-11-2011, 18:11:55
My fellow Vlamingen, long have we been overlooked and oppressed by these French-speaking tyrants. Now is the chance to get rid of the absolute monarchy in the hands of the Italo-Namuric maffia!

REVOLUTIE IN VLAANDEREN!!
maar niet na 10 uur (denk aan de buren)
And also not during the weekends

Funny and awesome man this alex agnew, but the reason why he is so awesome, is because he speaks the truth ...
if what happend here, happend in other countries, it would have been Protests like in Greece
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 24-11-2011, 18:11:35
so true, and if all else fails, we'll have a witte mars
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 24-11-2011, 18:11:44
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/307296_2667760460427_1448531737_2912977_1841474720_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-11-2011, 19:11:15
So wrong but I laughed so hard. I bet the cops will be here any minute now..

And yeah, fuck Holland! It's Holland this, Holland that, but the other provinces do matter! Revolt, unite!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 25-11-2011, 19:11:33
It's Holland this, Holland that, but the other provinces do matter! Revolt, unite!
Yeah, we use the other provinces to store our superfluous population ;)

Good luck Belgium with surviving this nonsense. Actually when you think of it, it is very dangerous for politicians: you guys get to see everyday that a country can run without even one politician in power! Let's dump them, it will run equally good, maybe even better without them!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 25-11-2011, 20:11:26
5 out of 6 goverments are working good, and we have an intrim goverment for the missing one, it is just a fight over who will be in power next. Silly stuff.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 25-11-2011, 20:11:39
It's Holland this, Holland that, but the other provinces do matter! Revolt, unite!
Yeah, we use the other provinces to store our superfluous population ;)
Hehe, I live in Drenthe which is slowly bleeding to death but when I go to the local 'city' I hear all kind of accents  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 25-11-2011, 21:11:48
Haha i was looking for immigration statistics in the western part of the nedlands and found some really weird ass no sense making jewish remarks. Than i looked at the url : stormfront.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 25-11-2011, 21:11:30
Ah Stormfront! When you read that you realize internet is free access for all in madhouses. Or they all escaped.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: siben on 26-11-2011, 18:11:17
We haz government?

Apearently they came to an agreement today. Looks like we will not hit the 600 days mark after all.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 27-11-2011, 11:11:43
Curses, foiled again...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 27-11-2011, 18:11:53
Ah Stormfront! When you read that you realize internet is free access for all in madhouses. Or they all escaped.

I was really like.... what ???. I hadnt looked upon things like what i read there. A really weird and confusing experience.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 28-11-2011, 20:11:31
Mentlegen, today it was announced that Belgium would have a working, albeit shabby, government, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 04-12-2011, 23:12:14
Gentlemen, in 12 hours the impossible will occure : Belgium will have a ferderal government once more !
Don't worry though, the idiotic unions already protested against in this friday ...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 05-12-2011, 20:12:13
I give Elio exactly one year in office

Gentlemen, off to Eastern Flanders, to Geraardsbergen

http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=16270.0 (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=16270.0)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 07-12-2011, 20:12:28
Mentlegen

it is official!

After 541 days=WE HAVE A GOVERMENT!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 08-12-2011, 19:12:50
we need more mattentaarten, a lot more
and Bart de Wever...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 23-04-2012, 13:04:38
Let's kick this one up again, the Dutch cabinet is today telling the Queen to go fuck herself so they have to start all over again.

At this point I'm politically lost; socialist party is very, very scary. Social democrats just want to raise taxes even more, Christian parties are either pseudo-socialist or Christ's right wingman no way I will vote on either of those. Eco-Nazi's never get my vote.. The liberal-democrats are only giving attention to Wilders and whining about him they should get their balls together. The 'liberals' are turning into conservatives even more.. And the populist party of Wilders is just silly.

Ugh. Time for the Fuchs Party.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 23-04-2012, 15:04:53
Not to mention that Bart de Wever has announced he will be running for mayor of Antwerp (and also run the Antwerp 10 miles)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Eglaerinion on 23-04-2012, 17:04:02
Sometimes for a few seconds I dream of a dictatorship just to get rid of all the drama. Too bad there are no good dictators.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-04-2012, 18:04:12
we belgians still have a more retarded goverment, but Dutch goverment is also very retarded
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 23-04-2012, 18:04:53
Sometimes for a few seconds I dream of a dictatorship just to get rid of all the drama. Too bad there are no good dictators.
I volunteer! I will subsidize pancakes.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: ajappat on 23-04-2012, 18:04:06
Sometimes for a few seconds I dream of a dictatorship just to get rid of all the drama. Too bad there are no good dictators.
I volunteer! I will subsidize pancakes.
I'm sold. Can you take Finland under your control while we are at it?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 23-04-2012, 23:04:55
No! I'll revolt against Fuchs!

@ voting: I understand you're a bit lost, and also that you don't wat nazis, but what is against eco awareness? You don't want a planet to live on?  ???
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-04-2012, 23:04:18
i dont give a damn about politics

but extreme right is the dumbest thing out there.....

Front nationale, vlaams belang, PVV..
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 24-04-2012, 00:04:37
Bye Mark and your asocial bunch! The greedy and grabbing must be completely demoralized, poor babyboomers. Hahahaha!

/pop!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 24-04-2012, 00:04:29
Maybe they now finally decide not to buy those overprized and never-to-be-finished JSFs. That would solve a great deal of our economical problems.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Surfbird on 24-04-2012, 00:04:26
I don't know a lot about politics in detail in belgium, besides that it is fucked up. Do some (right, nationalist) parties still want to split your country ? Have you guys personally problems with the different or maybe just pseudo-different cultures in belgium?
And what are the parties opinions at the moment. Does the majority of the parties want it to split or 50/50 or what is going on ?

Sorry for that many questions but I lost the overview over time and I am interested if belgium is going to exist the way it does today in the future.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 24-04-2012, 00:04:53
Maybe they now finally decide not to buy those overprized and never-to-be-finished JSFs. That would solve a great deal of our economical problems.

Yeah, trouble is the contracts with our industry that made us pick it in the first place. Ugly plane anyway, I liked the Swedish one, or was it the Czech.

I say, first thing: Cut this ridiculous mortgage rental benefit. Why it is not being restored to its original intend is a mystery to me. So 'starters' can buy a first house more easily and with fewer financial risk. Right now its only a benefit from which well off people buy (psst, LOAN) even more stuff that they don't need, at all.

I like my country, but man, we are so much like bunnies in the headlights. Debating bunnies, even worse.

For now however, /pop 8)
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-04-2012, 01:04:24
Maybe they now finally decide not to buy those overprized and never-to-be-finished JSFs. That would solve a great deal of our economical problems.
You do realize that if we bail out now we have to pay a very expensive fine AND lose all the money we already pumped in it? We should have stopped years ago, it is too late now.. Don't get me wrong, I don't want those fighters either but it's very stupid to walk down a 500KM road and say let's go back when the counter hits 350KM.

Ecological awareness is all fine and dandy, but I am Fuchs and I do not give a rat's ass about the environment due to eco-nazi's. Ecological laws are beyond my understanding, as is most forcing rules or tax reliefs. So ecological+ cars do not have to pay roadtaxes. Where is the sense in that? Do these cars magically float above the tarmac? And don't get me started on Staatsbosbeheer, you thought the German occupation was bad? Try making a living in a forest. It's not that I don't like nature, it's the way people shove it in your face that I just want to stop giving a single fuck about it.

Gezoes, I really thought the PvdA was the true babyboomer party. Anyways, Dutch politics are a mess. There's no party for me, not a true liberal or light-libertarian party. VVD are not liberals and all that D66 cares about is bashing Wilders. And they are too left on some matters.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 24-04-2012, 09:04:00
I don't know a lot about politics in detail in belgium, besides that it is fucked up. Do some (right, nationalist) parties still want to split your country ? Have you guys personally problems with the different or maybe just pseudo-different cultures in belgium?
And what are the parties opinions at the moment. Does the majority of the parties want it to split or 50/50 or what is going on ?

Sorry for that many questions but I lost the overview over time and I am interested if belgium is going to exist the way it does today in the future.
Well, truth is we don't really know what the hell is going on ourselves, the majority of voters has been neglected and we are now ruled by a minority with support of the Italian maffia from Mons. N-VA got about 40% of the votes 2 years ago and there have been rumours going around that the traditional parties want to make a cordon sanitaire around N-VA, i.e. banning it to the opposition for eternity.
The great Irony is that the Walloons themselves came with the idea of splitting the country, albeit satirical, the N-VA has no real plans of splitting, they want to try a confederacy first.And if the country would ever split, Wallonia would become a third world country with only FN Herstal as the major industry. And the Walloons are in a whole lot of trouble now because of the apparent selling of arms to rogue states like Libya, Syria and whatnot.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 24-04-2012, 09:04:27
 I can only laugh, the EU is crumbling.

 Btw @ Fuchs,
 Nobody told your queen to fuck off. The Prime Minister resigned and rightfully so, why bother when nobody will follow his leadership.  Just close your borders and revert to the guilder, your country will do just fine as long as the special interests are given the kick in the ass that they sorely need.


 @ Slayer, The JSF is a separate matter but the truth is that you havent even bought them yet so why fixate on money you havent spent when the real issues lie in generous social benefits and the commensurate social expectations that they create. If you want to bring up military spending, the Dutch navy has been the largest beneficiary recently yet they are not being held to many spending restrictions. (mind you this relates to the generous social benefits, build ships at home supporting overpaid workers and it only creates larger debt)


 As always, the Conservatives will win and then everyone is fucked...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 24-04-2012, 09:04:00
I don't know a lot about politics in detail in belgium, besides that it is fucked up. Do some (right, nationalist) parties still want to split your country ? Have you guys personally problems with the different or maybe just pseudo-different cultures in belgium?
And what are the parties opinions at the moment. Does the majority of the parties want it to split or 50/50 or what is going on ?

Sorry for that many questions but I lost the overview over time and I am interested if belgium is going to exist the way it does today in the future.
Well, truth is we don't really know what the hell is going on ourselves, the majority of voters has been neglected and we are now ruled by a minority with support of the Italian maffia from Mons. N-VA got about 40% of the votes 2 years ago and there have been rumours going around that the traditional parties want to make a cordon sanitaire around N-VA, i.e. banning it to the opposition for eternity.
The great Irony is that the Walloons themselves came with the idea of splitting the country, albeit satirical, the N-VA has no real plans of splitting, they want to try a confederacy first.And if the country would ever split, Wallonia would become a third world country with only FN Herstal as the major industry. And the Walloons are in a whole lot of trouble now because of the apparent selling of arms to rogue states like Libya, Syria and whatnot.

 your reply embodies the issues that surround multi-party systems that are based upon proportional representation. The right to vote is a privilege not a right and many, many, people the world over cannot be bothered to actually exercise that privilege.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-04-2012, 12:04:16
...Just close your borders and revert to the guilder...
...As always, the Conservatives will win and then everyone is fucked...

LOL, going back to the Guilder now is the worst advice ever, Sheik. We struggle with a deficit of almost 4% and then we also have to ditch the Euro and get our own currency back? That would easily kick the deficit up to 5%, maybe 6%.

The Conservatives will win as always? If you mean the liberals who actually are conservatives: this was the first cabinet led by those guys in almost 100 years.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 24-04-2012, 15:04:15
I already know what to vote. Been voting it for years. SP.
 
@Fuchs: The babyboomers are spread out now, but mostly VVD now, correct. The PvdA is too soft for my taste, but I like them big so they don't drift to the right. I have a big problem with the people that voted VVD and PVV last time and got this kabinet into this position.

They represent a nasty, egoistic, paranoid sentiment. I'm not denying I have these thoughts myself, of course I do from time to time. It's human. However, I take a good hard look at my bookshelves and propaganda posters, and slap myself. People are increasingly failing in that.

Try this at a birthday or any gathering. "Hey, what if we threw out all the Maroccans?" Quite a few will jump with joy at the idea. About 2 seconds later, you can tell who's seriously pondering it. Then say: "That's deportation". Watch their faces shrivel with hypocritical denial, dito anger and a sudden total lack of arguments.

Brrrrrr... fifth columnists.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 24-04-2012, 15:04:17
I don't know a lot about politics in detail in belgium, besides that it is fucked up. Do some (right, nationalist) parties still want to split your country ? Have you guys personally problems with the different or maybe just pseudo-different cultures in belgium?
And what are the parties opinions at the moment. Does the majority of the parties want it to split or 50/50 or what is going on ?

Sorry for that many questions but I lost the overview over time and I am interested if belgium is going to exist the way it does today in the future.
Well, truth is we don't really know what the hell is going on ourselves, the majority of voters has been neglected and we are now ruled by a minority with support of the Italian maffia from Mons. N-VA got about 40% of the votes 2 years ago and there have been rumours going around that the traditional parties want to make a cordon sanitaire around N-VA, i.e. banning it to the opposition for eternity.
The great Irony is that the Walloons themselves came with the idea of splitting the country, albeit satirical, the N-VA has no real plans of splitting, they want to try a confederacy first.And if the country would ever split, Wallonia would become a third world country with only FN Herstal as the major industry. And the Walloons are in a whole lot of trouble now because of the apparent selling of arms to rogue states like Libya, Syria and whatnot.

 your reply embodies the issues that surround multi-party systems that are based upon proportional representation. The right to vote is a privilege not a right and many, many, people the world over cannot be bothered to actually exercise that privilege.
in Belgium, voting is not a privilege, it's a nuisance, and it's mandatory
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-04-2012, 17:04:11
I already know what to vote. Been voting it for years. SP.
 
@Fuchs: The babyboomers are spread out now, but mostly VVD now, correct. The PvdA is too soft for my taste, but I like them big so they don't drift to the right. I have a big problem with the people that voted VVD and PVV last time and got this kabinet into this position.

They represent a nasty, egoistic, paranoid sentiment. I'm not denying I have these thoughts myself, of course I do from time to time. It's human. However, I take a good hard look at my bookshelves and propaganda posters, and slap myself. People are increasingly failing in that.

Try this at a birthday or any gathering. "Hey, what if we threw out all the Maroccans?" Quite a few will jump with joy at the idea. About 2 seconds later, you can tell who's seriously pondering it. Then say: "That's deportation". Watch their faces shrivel with hypocritical denial, dito anger and a sudden total lack of arguments.

Brrrrrr... fifth columnists.
Nice to know you have a big problem with me. And no, not PVV. I honestly don't understand why SP voters have such a big problem with the PVV, have you compared the social agenda of the two parties? Exactly the same. Mix that with advocating a harsher policy on immigrants and criminals and you have yourselves a populist party; people who wants society more fair will consider voting and people who wants society more harsh will consider voting.

And I don't get your point about Moroccans, it's not even realistic to consider deporting an entire nationality nor will that solve any problems. The focusing on nationality is one of the vital mistakes all those idiots are making. Yes, there's loads of Moroccan kids screaming "wollah, kankerlijer" and wearing those awful Nickelson jackets but do those people think native Dutch kids are different? I live in a low population and agricultural area and hell, if you want some real white-trash, come visit me  :)

And do you seriously believe everything that is wrong with this country is the fault of this cabinet that only got two years? Yes, I am disappointed by Rutte and in hindsight I admit it was to be expected they would get ass-raped by Christian parties and Wilders but still you can't seriously blame the problems of our country on the two year administration of his cabinet.

And one honest question from me to an SP-voter; how can that party endorse the royal family? How is that fair in any way?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 24-04-2012, 18:04:00

Yes, there's loads of Moroccan kids screaming "wollah, kankerlijer" and wearing those awful Nickelson jackets

this is very recognizable for me, I've got a whole set of building blocks full of those guys half a mile away from my doorstep. We just ignore them...

for now...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 24-04-2012, 18:04:25
Maybe they now finally decide not to buy those overprized and never-to-be-finished JSFs. That would solve a great deal of our economical problems.
You do realize that if we bail out now we have to pay a very expensive fine AND lose all the money we already pumped in it? We should have stopped years ago, it is too late now.. Don't get me wrong, I don't want those fighters either but it's very stupid to walk down a 500KM road and say let's go back when the counter hits 350KM.
For years I've been wanting them to bail out, but everytime the possibility was discussed, that argument you give now came up: we will waste so much money, it will be all for nothing, it is too late now, etc. I say better bail out yesterday. The sooner the better. It is not like it's gonna be cheaper when we continue. You know how the pirce has been icnreasing voer time, right? That will continue. In the end the government may be lucky if they can buy 5-10 of them instead of 60, because of the growing prices.

Ecological awareness is all fine and dandy, but I am Fuchs and I do not give a rat's ass about the environment due to eco-nazi's. Ecological laws are beyond my understanding, as is most forcing rules or tax reliefs. So ecological+ cars do not have to pay roadtaxes. Where is the sense in that? Do these cars magically float above the tarmac? And don't get me started on Staatsbosbeheer, you thought the German occupation was bad? Try making a living in a forest. It's not that I don't like nature, it's the way people shove it in your face that I just want to stop giving a single fuck about it.
Ah, so because some people annoy you, you'd rather go and continue polluting the planet until it is useless and we all die? Nice.

Also, do you really not understand why some stuff is subsidized? It is to motivate people to buy ecological cars. Yes, there is always some second agenda too, with business deals and everyhting, but the most important principle is that people might choose a car which is less polluting when they get some sort of a refund for it.

This is also the main reason for environmental laws. Because the majority of the (world's) population is dumb/unaware enough to not give a fuck about the planet they live on, they have to be forced to do stuff which helps saving it for future generations.

Oh, and nice Godwin's law there, btw ;)

@ sheik: I wonder where you got the impression that we didn't spend any money yet on the JSF?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-04-2012, 18:04:47
We all die anyways, Slayer, don't get your hopes up.

And yes, I will continue to pollute and destroy this planet. That is my protest to the way they treat me and try to make me feel like a murderer, terrorist and international criminal. Just like you are doing right now, even Godwin's Law is better than that.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Zoologic on 24-04-2012, 19:04:08
Slayer, the thing with eco-nazis is that, they believe in certain ideas. That's the main problem.

I give you a case why these eco-nazis are failure idiots:
I am an aviation enthusiast, therefore I am heavily biased. But being that, I have a lot more knowledge than just some random hippie with random agenda and 100% belief in alternative bullshit.

There are tree huggers that say planes put a lot of carbon in the air and bla-bla.... while the actual data says they just contribute less than 2% of total carbon outputs despite having higher percentage of activity/tonnage carried/miles traveled. The main problem with airplanes is actually NOx gasses they emit (which is alarmingly big in proportion to other source of pollution, especially in older planes), which is very damaging to the environment, mostly in form of acid rains (which leads to polluted soil and ground water and in turn causes failed crops and famine and malnutrition and war). In my opinion, it is much bigger problem than global warming, because we are already fighting for freshwater supplies here.

The whole EU is trying to impose carbon tax on airlines, well I don't know if there has been a decline in intelligence level amongst its residents since renaissance era. But why not NOx tax which is more effective? I'll shut Rolls-Royce, GE, Pratt&Whitney the fuck up for marketing into political bs by saying that their newer engines produce less carbon footprint and all that nonsense. All that Carbon bullshit Al Gore trying to fed you in order to boost his popularity has profound biased effects amongst sudden environmentalist n00bs (kinda those idiot Facebook or other social media users). And their number is substantial. It is not helpful either to the greater cause.

Yes, carbon dioxide causes the greenhouse effect, but the majority of aerobic organism including us emit this gas all the time. Methane, however is much more dangerous, not to mention Chlorine's effect on ozone layer.

It is not that I tried to be neutral, hipster or something. But it is a real problem, caused by stuffs that I love and I'm being honest. Well, I also love guns, but some people use it to commit crime and hurt others. They are associated with negative things like violence. But little know that they are also used for sporting events (even contested in Olympic Games).

My conclusion is: we can't be half-assed and preach to people with our half-assed knowledge about a subject. But politics are all about seeking for popularity, well amongst idiots. So we'd better don't give a shit about it. If we want to make a change, start by filling our brains with the right stuff and do something right. I boycotted a lot of companies that waste a lot of paper (or using illegal logs to produce that), abusing their workforce, violating safety regulations, etc after thorough research. I am still conservative, however.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Eglaerinion on 24-04-2012, 19:04:30
Maybe they now finally decide not to buy those overprized and never-to-be-finished JSFs. That would solve a great deal of our economical problems.
You're joking right? It solves nothing. The whole project will cost about 15 billion euros but that is for 30 years of use. A new jet will have to be bought eventually anyway whether it is a F-35 or another. Heck we spend 4 billion a year on dictators to keep oppressing their own people. If you want to cut spending start there.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 24-04-2012, 20:04:46
We all die anyways, Slayer, don't get your hopes up.
Haha, no, I'm not hoping for eternal life or something, but I hope that my kids and maybe even grandkids will be able to walk the planet and breathe the air without being poisoned. I'm sorry to hear you don't care for the future at all.

And yes, I will continue to pollute and destroy this planet. That is my protest to the way they treat me and try to make me feel like a murderer, terrorist and international criminal. Just like you are doing right now, even Godwin's Law is better than that.
Please don't accuse me of stuff, you're totally missing the point (and aiming a cannon at a mosquito at that). If I would think you are an international criminal (the thought  ::)), I'd say so. This way you sound like a whiny kid who cuts open the football of his neighbourhood kids just because he can't have one himself.

A new jet will have to be bought eventually anyway whether it is a F-35 or another. Heck we spend 4 billion a year on dictators to keep oppressing their own people. If you want to cut spending start there.
No, of course not: there is absolutely no necessity to buy a new aircraft. We are a teeny tiny country which longs for some international respect and therefore we spend needed Euros for much unneeded military toys. We have to stop that. And of course we have to stop spending money on dictators too, but that was quite a rhetoric remark.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Eglaerinion on 24-04-2012, 21:04:02
A new jet will have to be bought eventually anyway whether it is a F-35 or another. Heck we spend 4 billion a year on dictators to keep oppressing their own people. If you want to cut spending start there.
No, of course not: there is absolutely no necessity to buy a new aircraft. We are a teeny tiny country which longs for some international respect and therefore we spend needed Euros for much unneeded military toys. We have to stop that. And of course we have to stop spending money on dictators too, but that was quite a rhetoric remark.
Teen tiny country? Or the 15th largest economy of the world? It always surprises me how many people are members of the broken rifle club in the Netherlands.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 24-04-2012, 21:04:16
Netherlands might be a small country yet she stands strong at place 10 of GDP

even us belgians, 3 times as small as Netherlands, stand firmly at 17th place
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 24-04-2012, 21:04:31
Teen tiny country? Or the 15th largest economy of the world? It always surprises me how many people are members of the broken rifle club in the Netherlands.
Economy, yes: good thing to invest in. All military trouble is not something we're very good at, so let others excel there. And yes, I'm aware of examples which show that our army/navy did something well, but that's not my point.

But like I said: I'm all for supporting our economy, yet I think buying some overpriced aircraft isn't helping much.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 24-04-2012, 21:04:28
Introducing new aircraft always gives alot of jobs.

When belgium introduced the F-16, it was built partly here and it created over 25 000 jobs


But the JSF...well, overrated american POS. The netherlands would have been much better off with the Saab Gripen or Eurofighter typhoon

For norway example, the 52 JSFs orderd will cost them 700+ million dollar each

But we will see what the Dutch goverment brings after summer break. Nobody can do worse then Belgium
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-04-2012, 21:04:43
Please don't accuse me of stuff, you're totally missing the point (and aiming a cannon at a mosquito at that). If I would think you are an international criminal (the thought  ::)), I'd say so. This way you sound like a whiny kid who cuts open the football of his neighbourhood kids just because he can't have one himself.
The don't accuse me of stuff either, Slayer  :P Really, all the guilt talk from your side. And I don't really get that comparison, I'm not destroying anything. I'm simply living my own life on this planet the way I like it, I'm 1 out of 7 billion and there's no way that if I go full environmental it will change even a single thing.

And I would never cut up some football if those kids just played with it. I'd cut it open if they keep smashing it in my face.

Also glad to know Interpol is not on me yet, even people here have no idea.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 24-04-2012, 21:04:56
The don't accuse me of stuff either, Slayer  :P
I'm not.
Really, all the guilt talk from your side.
Guilt talk? I was only saying something about our planet, if I thought it was all your fault, again: I'd say so.
I'm simply living my own life on this planet the way I like it, I'm 1 out of 7 billion and there's no way that if I go full environmental it will change even a single thing.
That's what I thought, it is just indifference, more than it is "protest" against anything. And nice to see that conversation stopper "I can't cange anything on my own, so why bother?"  :P

Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 24-04-2012, 22:04:20
You did not accuse me of anything? You accused me of polluting this planet. And all that other crap about the future and making this planet useless. This planet will be just fine, Slayer. And if we ruin it then that is evolution and survival of the fittest. All hail the cockroach overlords.
I quote;
Quote
...you'd rather go and continue polluting the planet until it is useless and we all die?...

It's a cynical indifference generated by shove-it-in-your-face activists, Slayer. I used to care greatly for the environment but once I saw how other people who cared tried to change it I decided that free will of people is more important.

An example: fur. I think it's ridiculous that animals are being bred for the sole reason of making fur coats but does that give the activist with red paint any justification to throw it on some old lady's coat? No. Live and let live.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 25-04-2012, 06:04:56
 if they don't raise animals for fur, then they use pet dogs and cats, or they make synthetic fur using overly-polluting barrel's of oil.

@ Slayer,

 The netherland's is full development partner of the JSF project which carries certain liabilities but to date your country is only committed to a handful of test models (that does not make an airforce). At the moment, Italy, Australia, and the USA are the only truly committed partner's by having actual, committed production numbers.

 given the recent developments in defence co-operation (Benelux, Denmark, Norway), there is an opportunity to rationalize aircraft numbers as well as to determine the model's that will actually be flown.

IMO, I find the Dutch pragmatism in defence to be quite beneficial to your country from a broad perspective.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 25-04-2012, 23:04:11
You did not accuse me of anything?
No, I didn't. I just said that the planet gets polluted. I don't know you, so how can I judge if you are polluting it? You read it in my rhetorical question, but that's not the same.

This planet will be just fine, Slayer. And if we ruin it then that is evolution and survival of the fittest.
Yes, and now you can go back to sleep.

It's a cynical indifference generated by shove-it-in-your-face activists, Slayer. I used to care greatly for the environment but once I saw how other people who cared tried to change it I decided that free will of people is more important.
Oh, yeah, so it is other people's fault that you don't care about the environment?  ::) I'm amazed at how easy you can be brought off your principles.

IMO, I find the Dutch pragmatism in defence to be quite beneficial to your country from a broad perspective.
I'm all for pragmatism, I just don't see why my country needs those aircraft. I believe it is only for show, and to be able to say "but we have JSF's, now we can help out fighting terrorists!" while that isn't our job. Even if my government buys only one, it will still be very expensive.

My government can buy them when everyone in my country has a reasonable wealth level, when the EU is stable economically and when thriid world countries have no debts anymore.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 26-04-2012, 00:04:23
One more thing about the JSF's: keeping the F16's will cost more in the long run. Safely flying planes from the 70's requires a lot of maintenance.

And you don't have to worry about my principles at all. If I where brought off them that easily I would've agreed with you but instead we've been discussing it for the last 10 posts we made in this thread.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 26-04-2012, 01:04:33
 a couple of points here,

 The Netherland's has NOT purchased the JSF. As a second tier partner, the Netherlands has invested in the development of the aircraft in order to secure advanced domestic production techniques that benefit the aerospace industry of NLD.

 Should the decision be made to not purchase the aircraft, then there will be cancellation costs but the actual cost is not fixed and has to date, been largely offset by the existing contracts which have been made with the Dutch aero-industry.


WRT F16 costs and maintenance, yes, older planes do cost more money BUT the question is raised as to whether or not an advanced 5th generation aircraft is required to maintain air sovereignty. The JSF is designed for bombing, close air support and first-strike capability, all of which are debatable needs for a country like the Netherland's that ostensibly does not participate in such tactical scenario's.

 It is commonplace for any military to seek out the most capable/ potent weapon's that they can employ but those bells and whistle's don't really sympathize with the civilian population when domestic needs are more pressing. In terms of European arms acquisition, there is a growing trend of supporting domestic infrastructure and production over multi-national projects which may be expensive but can generally provide a greater tactical return. 

It all boils down to either keeping jobs at home and spending much more money or co-operating on commonplace needs with traditional allies with the larger up-front costs that generally become more affordable as economies of scale are introduced.

 ex: Franco-british carrier program (would have saved more money in the long run and provided greater capacity but has now been trumped by the domestic demands for supporting indigenous capabilities and maintaining employment numbers at home)


 it's all about the benjamin's and the votes that they buy...

Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 26-04-2012, 10:04:19
We currently have 1 JSF and another one is being assembled at the moment, these are the Dutch test models. So we do have JSF's.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 26-04-2012, 10:04:19
 You miss my point, the Netherland's has test models that are part of the development program. No further final production aircraft have been ordered, nor has any price been determined.

 The test models are not part of any JSF purchase, they are provided essentially as teaser's. The same principle is in place with the British, they have officially cancelled the version of the JSF-B (STOVL) but still have two test models that they have bought already.

 The JSF is funny business but most nations are only hanging in there to help prop up the only current 5G aircraft that is allowed for Foreign Military sales.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 26-04-2012, 17:04:29
Boss, boss, the plane, and we're probably selling our Leopards to Indonesia.

Meanwhile... did the opposition, except PvdA and SP, just agree to the cuts VVD / CDA / PVV were planning in the first place!? Before PVV blew that up.

What the...
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 26-04-2012, 18:04:05
Of course they did, get real Gezoes, politicians are whores  :P Those parties do everything to improve their chances on being in the cabinet this fall.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 26-04-2012, 19:04:05
One more thing about the JSF's: keeping the F16's will cost more in the long run. Safely flying planes from the 70's requires a lot of maintenance.
Yes, but my point is not: let's keep the F16s flying, my point is: let's quit flying warplanes altogether.

We are good at navy stuff, so let's focus on that if we really, really really want to participate in anything military across the globe.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 26-04-2012, 20:04:30
Can we keep the helicopters? Please?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 26-04-2012, 20:04:43
Of course they did, get real Gezoes, politicians are whores  :P Those parties do everything to improve their chances on being in the cabinet this fall.

My thoughts exactly. This is a kabinet formation. Some serious backstabbing going on. Quick, let's sign the package that's already done, or the country is gone tomorrow! It's a load of manure, sure, but we can easily wait two weeks. I doubt Brussels would like the biggest annual contributor cutting funds. How's that for a cut. Groen Links' true colors are quite a surprise. I hope it costs them dearly.

For once, the PvdA stands where I want it to. I like Samson, never mind what everyone says. We like to parrot in this country, so we can laugh at the ones that think different. It's as Dutch like clogs and cheese. I stand with the PvdA and SP. Cuts have to made, but not like this.

The new cabinet, apparently, I didn't know we had elections last night, is unwise to ignore a potential 2x25 seats (or even more) left block and a willing Wilders on the sidelines.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 26-04-2012, 20:04:38
Cuts have to made, but not like this.
I read a short summary, but the changelog doesn't sound so bad. Most cuts in education, health and aid are stopped.

For once, the PvdA stands where I want it to. I like Samson, never mind what everyone says.
In the same news flash I read that Samsom wants to change his stance in the upcoming debate, so I think he will turn towards agreeing with this new plan too.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: THeTA0123 on 26-04-2012, 20:04:04
My father was in the airforce, and he also guaranteed, that the best cost effective tool was to replace F16's.

It would be better to get rid of our(Belgian) 120 F16's and aquire something like 30-40 new aircraft, like the Saab Gripen, or eurofighter.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: th_battleaxe on 26-04-2012, 20:04:50
Waaaaiiiiiit a moment..

Who the fuck is this Samson, Wilders?
or is it the dog from studio 100?
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 26-04-2012, 20:04:35
Samson is the actual leader of the social-democrats. And Wilders his first name is Geert so... Geert en Samson has been born.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 26-04-2012, 20:04:52
Diederik Samsom, the new leader of the PvdA, Dutch socialdemocrats.

Geert en Samson has been born.
And that CAN'T be a coincidence!!
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Gezoes on 27-04-2012, 10:04:22
Marketconform rental prices! Oh no. So, no more maintenance, and a nice yearly bonus for the director of the housing agency.

My pension is already partly gambled away at the exchange thanks to these wonderful pension funds /puke. Yet, we give them even more. Uh uh. No raise for three years already, more taxes, more expenses, more rent, more this, more that. Maybe I should just crash my bike against a car so I can just sit at home.

D66 and Groen Links = backstabbers. Don't bet on a vote during my lifetime.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: NTH on 28-04-2012, 21:04:56
D'66 backstabbers?? They are a centre party with a history of being pragmatic. They should take their responsibility and work together on a government budget. I am glad Groen links joined, they got some of their ideas in, however small it may be (lower the taxes on solar panels) in the agreement.

Good riddance of Wilders and his merry band of idiots.
Curious how the PvdA will fare in the upcoming elections, they really missed the boat not joining the agreement.

Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 28-04-2012, 23:04:30
I hope they end up with as much seats as the SGP.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 29-04-2012, 15:04:55
I hope they end up with as much seats as the SGP.
I think that will never happen. CDA however, might end up like SGP in 5-10 years, because the majority of their support will be dead by then.
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Smiles on 29-04-2012, 18:04:25
Its funny because thats actually true:p
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Fuchs on 29-04-2012, 22:04:06
Haha, thanks Slayer for a good laugh after a hard day of work  ;D And yeah, it will actually be true.. And most will swap to CU I think..
Title: Re: Dutch (and Belgian) parliamentary elections
Post by: Slayer on 30-04-2012, 15:04:32
CU voters are more hardcore, but I think for CU the same road will apply. Voting results in 2026 will look like this when it comes to confessional parties:

SGP: 2
CU: 1
CDA: 1